32 Analogue Line Channels In and Out of PC

[forumuser825317]

I'd like to get 32 channels of line-level analogue audio in/out of my (Windows) PC using USB.

What's the best way to do it ?

I don't really want to have to put a Thunderbolt port on the PC; if I'm going to do that I may as well go Dante. But it seems that every method involves a intermediary protocol i.e. Dante, Thunderbolt etc.

Are there any 32 Channel Audio to USB devices, or do I have to buy four 8Ch audio interfaces, which seems messy/kludgy.

Any thoughts would be greatly appreciated. Thanks

[resistorman]

A Behringer XR32 will do it. RME only does 30.

[backtomono]

antelope orion will do 32 in/out on usb2.

[forumuser825317]

Brilliant ! Thank you to Resistorman and Backtomono.

That's all needed. Thanks heaps !

[Mixedup]

The other obvious non-Dante or AVB option is an RME MADIface USB plus a Ferrofish A32.

[Eddy Deegan]

Obligatory SOS article links for convenience

https://www.soundonsound.com/reviews/behringer-x32

https://www.soundonsound.com/reviews/an ... o-orion-32

https://www.soundonsound.com/reviews/rm ... ace-xt-usb

https://www.soundonsound.com/reviews/ferrofish-a32

[forumuser825317]

Thank you.
However, @resistorman and @mixedup, perhaps I am missing something but there isn't any RME interface that goes from analogue to USB without an intermediate step like MADI, DANTE or Thunderbolt.

I'm trying to do 32 analogue to USB.
I can't find any RME box that does that without MADI or DANTE.

Am I missing something ?

Cheers, Thanks.

[The Elf]

Other than putting a mixer in the way (which wouldn't be my choice) I can't think of a one-box interface that will do what you want.

My own solution is an RME MADIFace XT and a pair of Ferrofish A32 MADI interfaces. It's pretty neat.

[James Perrett]

If you are happy to work at a maximum of 48kHz then you could use the Ferrofish A32 with an RME Digiface USB.

[Mixedup]

Why the objection to MADI? It's only one more cable! (And can be an optical one at that, which can be handy in breaking ground loops...).

[forumuser825317]

Thank you.
@Mixedup
The main reason for not wanting to have the intermediate step of MADI is simply cost. (And unless I have missed something there is a MINIMUM of three separate cables - IN, OUT, and CLOCK.

Even RME's own website says MADI is expensive, nevertheless the numbers are ($AU);

Behringer XR 32 RACK = $1400
MOTU 828es 28x32 = $1600
RME MADIface XT $3173 + Ferrofish A32 $4000 = $7173

I would welcome any observations, comments on this. The best option seems to be the MOTU 828es 28x32 which has the best mix of numbers of I/O, has a reasonable reputation and reasonable cost. I know the RME is a few dB better specs here and there but I'd say it'd be inaudible in normal use for about 4-5 times the cost.

Any thoughts, or comments would be appreciated. Thank you.

[Sam Spoons]

Those would be my thoughts too, I have an X32 Compact as my studio desk/interface (16X16 I/O is more than sufficient for my needs). I bought the X32 for the occasional live job but put it into the studio initially to learn how to use it. As an old analogue guy it suits me to have a physical desk but if I worked 'in the box' the MOTU would be my choice from your selection.

[The Elf]

I can tell you why *I* went for the MADIFace XT/Ferrofish A32 choice...

- RME's TotalMix - I wouldn't want to work without it, but I doubt you'll miss what you've never had.

- RME's support history. They were still updating my Fireface 800 as I sold it - that kind of support is worth my money.

- RME's rock-solid performance. I've never had a single problem with RME gear - at any of the sites I've specced and worked at. I could honestly forgive a few glitches and even a few hardware failures over the time and quantity of RME gear I've used, but I can report zero problems. The same is true of the Creamware/Ferrofish devices I've used, but I've used far fewer of them.

- Minimal latency using ASIO drivers.

- DB25 connections from A32s to patchbays - makes for very neat and reliable cabling.

- Rack format and minimum rack space taken up.

[Humble Bee]

A cheaper RME/Ferrofish solution could be

RME Digiface USB

And 2 Ferrofish Pulse 16 Adat converters.

A good friend runs this and an Audient console and have great sound and zero problems.

RME is probably the best you can get...

[Mixedup]

You don't need the Madiface XT. The Madiface USB is way cheaper. The Digiface for ADAT more so. Why RME? Because their drivers are always up to date, their software good and bug free and they keep supporting old devices for years...

[El Jeffe]

Go from ADAT to USB. 4 Behringer ADA8200 and a an RME Digiface, or MOTU LP32 would do 32X32 on USB2 if you need mic preamps. There are of course better MicPre/A/D convertors out there too.

I have LP32, Digimax LT, (A/D only) and some old TANGO24 units which do both A/D and D/A light pipe conversion.

A pair of used Apogee AD16 and a pair of Apogee DA16 would be top quality 32X32 ADAT to and from line level analog with the LP32 or the RME Digiface. You could do this for less than $2K but you should include a master clock. Used Lucid are cheap.

[paul tha other]

im not sure you could get 32 out from the x32...there are only 16 physical outputs on my one..
it will take 32 tracks back on to the board but it would not have them on a output unless you grouped them together

or am i wrong???

[Sam Spoons]

AFAIK you can using AES50 and an S16/32 to give you the extra physical outputs. The X32 has 38 analogue inputs and 22 analogue outputs (including 6 aux inputs and 6 aux outputs) onboard.

The limiting factor if you wanted to use the extra outputs for, say, IEMs is that there are only 16 busses. If you just need to pass a track from the PC/DAW through to a physical output that can be done.

[Kevin Nolan]

I'm upgrading my project studio and looking at somewhere in and around 60-70 analogue inputs.

I'm settling on MOTU AVB technology:

1248 + two or three other interfaces such as the 16A or 24Ai all linked via a MOTU AVB Switch.

The critical elements of this are:

- Incredibly flexible I/O across all interfaces; but all acting as if they are one interface to your computer.

- The ability to monitor _everything_ - from any hardware input, and / or from DAW over one stereo monitor output from the 1248 - ideal for hardware monitoring without latency when tracking large numbers of synths; and then for combined monitoring of Audio and live MIDI during mixing - and not possible, as far as I can see, from any other manufacturer solution when using more than one interface (with each interface requiring it's own monitoring outputs).

- Flexible internal mixing to be able to use hardware effects processors at no latency when tracking; but then easily incorporate those effects in to DAW auxiliary tracks

- Excellent expandability, including over multiple rooms.

Finally, MOTU driver support is second to none - literally. They are _amazing_ at supporting legacy devices and distinguish themselves far and above all other interface manufacturers in this regard. As just one example - MOTU MIDI interfaces manufactured 20 years ago still work with their drivers today. Name one other company who provides that sort of longevity.

As far as I can tell, no other manufacturer offers anything like the flexibility of MOTU AVB technology; and is surely a serious option for you looking to route 32 analogue line level inputs into a DAW.

[CS70]

Name one other company who provides that sort of longevity.

Right in front of me sits a 2001 Multiface which works flawlessly with a very modern pc with Windows 10.

Good to know RME is not the only one

[Sam Spoons]

60-70 analogue inputs? That's a hell of a project studio Kevin......

[Kevin Nolan]

@Sam - it'a a project studio room with about 30 hardware syntheizers and 10 outboard effects processors, and no mixer. The objective is to have all instruments linked to a DAW environment, outboard effects usable for both live tracking / hardware monitoring and also usable in a DAW environment; and never have to do any patching.

While the MOTU system I'm putting in place supposedly can cope with hundreds of Audio tracks, I need about 70 inputs - but of course only a small fraction of those will be used / live at any one moment so I don't expect to stress this environment to the limit.

I've sent bucket loads of pre-sales technical questions to MOTU and they have been very helpful with answers - I know you might expect that given they are"pre-sales" questions but their technical replies are detailed and forthright.

I'm being really slow about this because I want to get it right - I'm spending perhaps 5 -7 grand on interfacing alone so I can't afford to get this wrong. While others have suggested other solutions - particularly around MADI and RME, no alternative solution presented seems to offer the same flexibility as MOTU AVB; and ideally I'd like to talk with another project studio with a similar number of hardware synthesizers using MOTU AVB technology. Technically it all seems robust but - finding a large setup using such interfacing has proved elusive - most people are ditching their large hardware setups these days while I'm looking to bring a large setup to the next level with these kinds of characteristics:

- Hardware / software combined environment

- Hardware controllers such a Push2 and BSP

- MIDI controllers: Roli Seaboad, QuNexus, WX7 wind control, ...

- Hardware vocal processing though V-Synth GT, VP330 and OASYS (it's vocoder is excellent - perhaps '1 step' below Roland Vocal Design in capability)

- CV / MIDI capabilities (some example - CS40M+CS30; Minimoog (reissue) + Subsequent 37, ...

- Spatialisation using IRCAM Spat and FLUX Spat-Revolution

- Excellent hardware effects such as Dimension-D, PCM91, Reverb4000, ...

So it's a big and ambitious project - and central to it's success is a large number of physical inputs and outputs to the computer. If you were to look over my posts here you'd see I've been years at it (I have a 2nd project studio room in my home not affected by all of this) - but I'm getting close to making the decision to purchase the MOTU Audio (and MIDI) interfacing. Then comes the task of putting this all together! If I can pull it off, it will surely enable some very exciting sonic and compositional possibilities...

[Sam Spoons]

Well..... Wow! just wow!

I suspect I'm not the only one who would like to see pics when it's all up and running, and to hear some of the results

[Martin Walker]

Agreed - I'd be very interested to see the outcome as well!

Martin

[The Elf]

I have a similar thirst for I/O. The key to it all, for me, is TotalMix - it pulls everything together in a meaningful way, delivering signals where they need to be and pulling in external processors as I need them. If I use a specific configuration often then I have it at a single click. When you're dealing with a couple of hundred inputs and outputs this becomes important.

I was a bit peeved when, after looking briefly at a (non-RME = non-TotalMix) Dante-based system and committing to MADI, RME two weeks later released a Dante interface that would support TotalMix. The impression I'm getting is that Dante is gathering support. Given my time again I think that's the way I would go.

Check what equivalent to TotalMix MOTU offer - it will become very important when things get complex.