Beefy PA that's not too heavy..does it exist?

[DH8888885]

Hi,

I play in a nine piece pop and soul band - 2 vox, guitar, bass, keys, sax, trumpet, trombone, drums - playing pubs and weddings. We currently use Mackie SRM 12" tops and 18" subs, which sound great but are heavy as all sin and I'd like to have something smaller/lighter if possible. I've seen lots of the mini line array-type PAs around but not sure if they would handle all of that stuff going through it and still kick out enough sound to fill a marquee.

I understand that it's not just about watts but more about SPL (I think?!), but unsure on whether we can downsize without losing quality and volume.

Any help greatly appreciated!

[Drew Stephenson]

I'm sure it does, but it'll cost a lot. To produce decent low end from a big, heavy cabinet with a powerful amp isn't technically too demanding.
To get a similar output from something smaller and lighter is fighting with physics.

[Acoustic Landscape]

We had some good results with four active SRM450's ( V1's thirty years ago!), they definitely get wobbly toward 30Hz, what we did, was kept the bass EQ level, going subtractive EQ's on everything above around 400Hz, this gave good clarity, projection and retained solidity, at lower volumes... Eight of those in linear pairs half around the room? Half the weight, twice the cabinets. but then again there are Marquees and there are Marquees! And that's well on the way to being a big band! The set up you have is exactly what we were looking at as the next step for touring small festivals, There is nothing like the kick of 18"'s to get the crowd jumpin... you can go anywhere with that and it's easy to fix. We moved on to festivals using the stage set up and front line as provided, logistically easier, but challenging when you're looking for a particular tonal palette or when there are faults. Some of these Bose linear popsicle sticks were demoed at the time ( they were the first of their kind at the time), they left me cold, bad distortion in all the wrong places, probably good for light acoustic and ambient tho. Maybe stick with what you have and look at dedicated stair trolleys, those triple wheelers are a life saver, a challenge to find the braked ones, tho they do exist. A nine piece out fit with groove as an undoubted 'centering' IMO wouldn't want to roll with less than a 3Kw rig w/2 x 18"s and quality pre-amps in the desk to keep the timbre good. Midas VF16/24?
All sound systems sound better if they are over-rated in power (Kw,) played at lower volume, they're also more reliable that way. Sheer weight has a significant improvement on coherence at low f

[Sam Spoons]

Bose L series are great but don't go loud, I believe Fohn (IIRC) do some 'mini line array' tops (didn't Bob Bickerton have some?) that give lots of volume. But, how many SRM12s and 18" subs do you use? A Yamaha DZR/DXS rig would get you significantly more SPL with a couple of DZR10's and one or two DXS15XLF. They weigh about the same as the Mackies but go a lot louder (136/137dB SPL) so, depending how many Mackies you use, you could carry fewer cabs.

[ajay_m]

You might care to also ask this on the Reddit Live Sound forum. There are some very knowledgeable people contributing there, and a dedicated gear recommendations subtopic.
[PS: they don't much like Bose gear, I'll warn you now!. Also they have strong feelings about Presonus gear and particular vitriol towards the Yamaha TF series of mixers, so you won't necessarily get completely impartial advice - but a lot of the contributors are obviously doing pretty large scale live sound work, mainly in the US so they do know good gear when they see it]

[tacitus]

The 9/10-piece band I play in goes out with 2KW in a pair of dB technologies Flexsys 315s. I bought them when I used to do PA for outdoor wind band/orchestra picnic concerts - the audience delighted ib setting up their gazebos to the side where they couldn’t hear the mains (db tech 50-line, 3.something KW) so well. Apparently this was my fault? The 315s filled in that gap and when that PA bubble burst we started gigging weddings with the 315s. Nearly everything we do with our own PA is a wedding, and we invariably have the mains on the dance floor so it’s loud enough for dancing and there’s a bit less noise at the back so the grandparents can discuss why Fred didn’t bring Noreen over from Oz to the wedding so they could see them.

Alternatively, some of us are old enough to remember the April Fool inflatable PA speaker review in SOS a good two decades ago. Gosh, I could have done with that being true a few times!

[Mike Stranks]

Bose L series are great but don't go loud, I believe Fohn (IIRC) do some 'mini line array' tops (didn't Bob Bickerton have some?) that give lots of volume. But, how many SRM12s and 18" subs do you use? A Yamaha DZR/DXS rig would get you significantly more SPL with a couple of DZR10's and one or two DXS15XLF. They weigh about the same as the Mackies but go a lot louder (136/137dB SPL) so, depending how many Mackies you use, you could carry fewer cabs.

Paul White has/had a Fohhn system which sounded superb. No idea of what components he had or the power-output, but it handled whatever he was throwing at it - The Elf's keys/synths when I heard it - effortlessly...

... and here's a review of some Fohhn kit by Paul, that may be apposite:

https://www.soundonsound.com/reviews/fo ... 1-d-2-1500

[Acoustic Landscape]

dB technologies are good, have had good experiences playing through them, they have it all and were right there when you needed them the most.

Im guessing you have the SRM1801's.

For a Live instrument band you don't really need a range lower than 30Hz unless the material has deep synth LFO's going on. You can get away with 50-60Hz roll off on 15"s, but it will sound lacking if your used to 18"s.

High efficiency drivers in PA systems is IMO one of the key factors, above 100db, also Q, but cabinet design is really important too, more than that having drivers and cabinets that are designed together really helps.

Have you looked at Funktion One? Difficult to get better developmental pedigree than those. Very high efficiency drivers, they also control their manufacture. Amazing when coupled with those FFA amplifiers, which are unusually light weight and powerful. Active crossover management necessary and mind blowing, it's like having a volume and a filter for each speaker. A pair of Res 1's with a pair of BR118 may be suitable, the BR115 are a similar weight to what you have.
I had the pleasure of demoing an entire system over an afternoon and have never heard anything that comes close, ever... before or since. It was over 104dB on the handheld meter, intelligible conversation was easy, due to the vanishingly low distortion. But extremes are not what it's about.

Truth of the matter is anything that reliably delivers power within the 30 -400Hz range, without cone problems are going to weigh in as the most hefty items. Unless you reduce the size of the drivers and increase the number of cabinets- less weight, more hands...The other option is upping the amplification on all bass instruments and lessening the front of house bass cabs, but that has its drawbacks in certain venues.

Hope you find a solution and that this helps.

[dickiefunk]

For something like this I would look at a passive system like the Nexo PS system. Something like the PS10 R2's and LS600 amps get surprisingly loud! However, these aren't cheap!
A was running sound for an event a few years ago and had my Yamaha DXR15/QSC KW181 system for a band. The DJ had a pair of the mk1 PS10's and a single LS500 sub and during sound check we had time to do a quick comparison of both systems. The Nexo system went a lot louder than my DXR/QSC system.

Another small system that I was very impressed with is the KV2 EX series. I've played at events where the engineer had a pair of 6" KV2 EX6's and a single EX1.2 12" sub and that system was loud! KV2 also make a dual 6" top which goes louder or a 10" and you could add another EX1.2 sub. However, this isn't cheap!

[Dave Rowles]

You could look at AEDAudio as well, but again not cheap. I've got 2 Solid 15s, and 2 Flex6 tops, and they kick out an insane volume for the size of speaker. They're about £10k for the set though.

Out of the flight cases I can get them all in the back of my Qashqai with the seats down.

I'm not a huge fan of KV2 when I've heard it deployed, although I've never mixed on it myself. Those engineers that I talk to about it say things like "oh that's the stuff that just does loud", which isn't a glowing endorsement.

[AlecSp]

Blowing the budget yet more, I regularly mix on D&B Y10P over B6 (18kg over 41kg). Compact, relatively light, effortless and refined...

[Mike Stranks]

Many years since I head any KV2, but about 15 years ago I came across it sometimes, either in porta-rigs, substantial festival-type setups and one install... always sounded very good and smooth with no obvious peaks or troughs... Of course, I couldn't see what the graphics or other EQ were up to!