Zoom H4n - poor recording quality when recording throught the external mic sockets

[backinhumanform]

I have a Zoom H4n hand-held mobile 4 track recorder. When I record through the on-board microphone and play it back, the sound is crystal clear. When I record using a Shure SM58 microphone, plugged into inputs 1 or 2, the sound is very dim – not clear at all. I experimented with the Phantom Power input setting, both 24V and 48V, but this made no difference. I believe this setting is only for a condenser mic anyway, so it probably wasn’t relevant? But worth a try all the same. I next plugged the mic into the external mic mini-jack socket on the back of the Zoom. After recording and playing back, the sound was clearer here, but still muffled, and nowhere approaching the clarity of the sound recorded through the on-board mic. Even increasing the recording level to 100 (it was set to 80 when recording through the on-board mic), it’s still muffled. Is this normal for the H4n? And is there anything I can do to improve it? It seems poor to me.

[James Perrett]

The SM58 doesn't have much real top end so, in comparison with the internal mics, it may sound harsher (thanks to the boosted midrange) but duller (thanks to the reduced top end). The internal mics are almost certainly electret condenser mics which often have a slightly enhanced high frequency response. It is also possible that there is a problem with the cable or, if it came from Ebay, that you've ended up with a fake SM58.

James.

[backinhumanform]

Hi James

Thanks for the reply. The SM58 is genuine, I bought it from an electrical store in Manchester (I still have the box it came in). The cables I'm using are standard cables from Stagg Music, SMC1XP. Is it worth going for a different mic? If so, what would you recommend?

Thanks

Joe

[The Elf]

I experimented with the Phantom Power input setting, both 24V and 48V, but this made no difference. I believe this setting is only for a condenser mic anyway, so it probably wasn’t relevant?

Yes, it's not relevant at all. Leave phantom power switched off for a dynamic mic, such as the SM58.

The SM58 is not the world's most sensitive mic, and the H4N's pre's, while being OK for cheap and cheerful recording on the move, are not going to match a more serious device with mains power at its disposal. I have a number of SDCs I use with my H4N and have no serious complaints with recording quality. The noise floor is not as low as with a serious mic pre/ADC, but other than that the results are acceptable.

[Brian M Rose]

We can sometimes be a little unfair on equipment such as the H4n. After all, it's a recorder with a whole raft of (to me unwanted) effects, complete with a pair of quite good mics, and multiple inputs. It costs less than 1/10th of a full blown 'professional' location recorder, but is capable if quite stunningly high quality recordings.
I too have found that the mic input is rather insensitive, and quite noisy. For voice over work in the Studio, I use an Audio Technica AT4040 into a Soundcraft M12 desk, and take the output of this into the 'line' in (it isn't line) via 40dB pads. Everyone seems very pleased with the results.
But it is still a very basic recorder. For example, I could really do with proper EBU Timecode, but that is simply not realistic at the price.
....got to go, picking up a voice artist from the station.

Brian Rose

[sthum]

I have a Zoom H4n hand-held mobile 4 track recorder. When I record through the on-board microphone and play it back, the sound is crystal clear. When I record using a Shure SM58 microphone, plugged into inputs 1 or 2, the sound is very dim – not clear at all. I experimented with the Phantom Power input setting, both 24V and 48V, but this made no difference. I believe this setting is only for a condenser mic anyway, so it probably wasn’t relevant? But worth a try all the same. I next plugged the mic into the external mic mini-jack socket on the back of the Zoom. After recording and playing back, the sound was clearer here, but still muffled, and nowhere approaching the clarity of the sound recorded through the on-board mic. Even increasing the recording level to 100 (it was set to 80 when recording through the on-board mic), it’s still muffled. Is this normal for the H4n? And is there anything I can do to improve it? It seems poor to me.

It would appear that you need a 'Plug-in Power stereo condenser mic' to enable better recordings via external Mics on the Zoom H4N!

There is a brilliant article in this months 'Acoustic Guitar' magazine.. called 'All About Handheld Recorders' (starts on page 57).  
It explores the various methods for using handheld recorders in different recording environments.  

I'll quote you one relevant passage from the article... 

"Adding External Mics:

One way to increase the audio quality of your recordings is by adding an external stereo microphone!  Every recorder has a stereo mic input, usually on a 3.5 mm mini-jack.   If you plan to do this, look for a recorder that has 'Plug in power'... Which is used to power the electret condenser mics intended for portable recorders... (plugin power should not be confused with phantom power, which is usually +24 or +48 VDC and offered on portable recorders with XLR inputs)!
Not surprisingly, many manufacturers who make recorders or standard mics (including Audio-Technica, Tascam and Sony) also make stereo mics with mini-plugs."!

The Zoom H4N has plug-in power!

See here for more info:
http://www.zoom.co.jp/english/support/faq/h4n.php

Can I use a plug-in power type stereo condenser mic with the H4n?

A: Yes. The rear panel of the unit has an external microphone connector compatible with plug-in power. However, simultaneous use with the built-in stereo microphone is not possible. For details, see page 31 of the Operation Manual.

Online H4N Manual PDF here:
https://wikis.utexas.edu/download/attachments/15045757/Zoom+H4n.pdf

Download the H4N Manual here:
http://www.zoom.co.jp/downloads/h4n/manual/

The Zoom H4N is mentioned in the article!

I have a Zoom H4N and I love it... I've only ever used the attached mics and have found them to be excellent in all areas of use!
The article might shed some light on which external microphones are best to use with the H4N..  I haven't read the entire piece but it does look quite detailed...

Hope the helps.....

[The Elf]

It would appear that you need a 'Plug-in Power stereo condenser mic' to enable better recordings via external Mics on the Zoom H4N!

Ahem! No you don't...

The XLR mic inputs will provide standard phantom power.

Only the 'External Mic' input is designed for 'plug-in power' mic's. And I'd suggest that typical plug-in power mic's are unlikely to better the recording quality of the H4N's built-in mic's.

[sthum]

Ahem... Only reporting what I read... I thought that little bit of info might better assist the op in moving forward re his problem?
It took me ages to type that up too.. What with only having one finger, screaming babies and everything!

He had said that he had used a Shure SM 58.. Which the other posts suggest is not the best type of mic to use!

Still.. It's a good article re 'Handheld Recorders'!

[backinhumanform]

sthum, I think The Elf is right regarding the mics. But thank you for typing up the relevant paragraph - I bought the magazine this morning on your advice, it was a good article. After doing a bit more research - I bought the SOS special edition on Microphones as well - could I improve the recording quality if I bought a different microphone? Unfortunately, the SOS special edition doesn't really offer any advice specific to the H4n, it's more of a general read. I would certainly spend a couple of hundred quid on a mic if I thought it would improve things, has anyone else tried a specific mic with the H4n, and had comparable results to the recording quality achieved through the on-board mics?

[Brian M Rose]

For voice-over work, yes. Even the SE 2000 is rather better and the AT4040 dramatically so. The latter is a very quiet microphone, and I am not convinced that the mic pre-amp on the H4n takes full advantage of this.
But again. the H4n does represent stunningly good value for money. But then again, those of us who have been around for long enough to remember when transistors were a new thing, are very aware of just how inexpensive recording equipment has become.
I got my ACTT union ticket, working in a sound studio that was all valves (really BIG ones) and stud faders. My job every Monday morning was to polish the studs and the (brass) PO jack plugs. In those days, 'Grams' were Grams (all production music was recorded on 78's), Tape Recorders had 3 Phase motors, and you kept the kettle hot by putting it carefully on top of the Amp.
Oh Happy Days!

[The Elf]

has anyone else tried a specific mic with the H4n, and had comparable results to the recording quality achieved through the on-board mics?

I've used my H4n with: NT55; KM184; MXL 603. All have given satisfactory results and did improve in the in-built mic's IMO. This said, the fact that I can place the mic's in a more suitable place/pattern probably has a lot to do with the improved results too. I really like the KM184s in ORTF and the NT55s as a spaced omni pair are incredible when the recording environment is on your side.

For me, if I was to travel with an H4n and only one pair of mic's it would be the NT55s.