Electrovoice RE27 n/d or Beyerdynamics M88 TG?

[Dantheman06]

I am building my own recording studio and would like to record professionally one day. My mics are sm58, sm7b, a pair of oktava 012 (omni, cardio supercardio) and Rode NT1 (new black version). I record rappers and a growing number of male and female singers. The sm7b is good with rappers and with many singers. The new Rode NT1 is very good for a low cost microphone. I don’t not have $$ to buy high end condensers. I am putting $$$ aside for AKG414xls, Neumann etc but think that I could buy high end dynamic mics in the mean time for the pressing needs of my growing business.

The RE 20 gets a lot of praise but it might be a bit warm and my SM7B is also a warm mic. I think that RE 27 N/D might be better because it is brighter and may complement better my SM7B and rode NT1. I have been told that the Beyer m88 TG is also a studio quality dynamic but, closer to the sm7b as they are both warm. I will eventually buy a M88TG as they are good instrument mics but this is not where my pressing needs are. My pressing needs are good mics for singers, all styles.

The reason why I am not shure that I should buy the RE 27 N/D is that it is advertised as a broadcasting mic. What I need is mic that will be excellent dynamic mic for singers and would complement my NT1 and SM7B . Note: the Sennheiser MD441 is too expensive.

What would you buy? RE27 N/D or M88TG?
Thank you!

[Bob Bickerton]

I have the RE20, SM7 and M88, haven't tried the RE27. For studio vocals the dynamic I will often use is the SM7, the RE20 hardly ever gets an outing. The M88 is great live mic on certain voices, though you have to watch its somewhat spectacular proximity effect! Haven't really used it in the studio though.

One of my favourite dynamic mics is the Beyer M201, so if you were set on buying another dynamic with a different flavour, that's the one I'd recommend.

There's a few supporters of the CAD M169 around here, though I haven't tried one, and a cheaper condenser which I like on certain voices is the Sennheiser MK4, which doesn't seem to enjoy too much press (and was never reviewed in SOS).

Bob

[Mike Stranks]

There's a few supporters of the CAD M169 around here...
Bob

I think you mean the CAD M179 Bob, of which both Mr Robjohns, Guy Johnson and I have some and are happy bunnies...

[Tim Gillett]

Dantheman06, I'm not sure you understand what Variable D mics are and do. Here's a video that explains Variable D mics like the RE20 and RE27. It has some demonstration listening tests. Listen through a good sound system so you can hear the tonal changes. Hope this helps. Tim

https://youtu.be/0MDxZ2LDANA

[Bob Bickerton]

I think you mean the CAD M179 Bob, of which both Mr Robjohns, Guy Johnson and I have some and are happy bunnies...

Quite right!

Bob

[Dantheman06]

Dantheman06, I'm not sure you understand what Variable D mics are and do. Here's a video that explains Variable D mics like the RE20 and RE27. It has some demonstration listening tests. Listen through a good sound system so you can hear the tonal changes. Hope this helps. Tim

https://youtu.be/0MDxZ2LDANA

Mty understanding is that with variable D you get rid of most of the proximity effect. This may help with inexperienced singers with a tendency to swallow the mic. Does it change other things? Are variable D not suitable for singing? Why not?

[Tim Gillett]

Dantheman06, I'm not sure you understand what Variable D mics are and do. Here's a video that explains Variable D mics like the RE20 and RE27. It has some demonstration listening tests. Listen through a good sound system so you can hear the tonal changes. Hope this helps. Tim

https://youtu.be/0MDxZ2LDANA

My understanding is that with variable D you get rid of most of the proximity effect. This may help with inexperienced singers with a tendency to swallow the mic. Does it change other things? Are variable D not suitable for singing? Why not?

Variable D mics are used by many experienced people in professional situations, not just for the inexperienced. IMO they make things easier for the performer no matter what skill level. They give a more consistent tone regardless of distance. Bad mic technique will still sound bad of course, but not as bad as a standard mic. It gives the performer more freedom and leeway to concentrate on their performance. I see that as a good thing.

They also have a more ideal polar pattern. So sounds off to the side or at the back are still reduced in volume but are truer.

Yes Variable D are suited for singing as well as instruments. Lots of TV and film clips of such mics being used. Here's one of Elvis:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Wb0Jmy-JYbA

Some say they tend to have more handling noise than a standard stage mic. That is the only downside I know of. The new Shure KSM 8 achieves probably even truer sound and with even less handling noise although it's expensive.

[Dantheman06]

Yes Variable D are suited for singing as well as instruments. Lots of TV and film clips of such mics being used.

And what about the RE 27N/D? any idea?

[Bob Bickerton]

Whilst Tim's comments regarding the proximity effect of variable D mics such as the RE20 are correct, in reality, I've never had a problem in recording vocalists with other mics.

Of more importance, in my opinion, is matching the mic to the voice, and as I said before my RE20 hardly gets a look in.

Bob

[SimonZ]

If you are looking at RE20 or 27 then you should also look at the RE320, very useful mic.

[Mike Stranks]

If you are looking at RE20 or 27 then you should also look at the RE320, very useful mic.

Quite so... in comparative tests of these three I've always preferred the sound of the 320. Would be on my 'buy list' if I didn't have a Rode Procaster...

[Drew Stephenson]

We actually used an RE20 a lot on my voice when I had my album recording a few *ahem* years ago. Maybe it was the engineer subtly telling me my microphone technique was cr@p?

[Tim Gillett]

We actually used an RE20 a lot on my voice when I had my album recording a few *ahem* years ago. Maybe it was the engineer subtly telling me my microphone technique was cr@p?

Normally proximity effect is an unwanted side effect of a directional mic. Maybe the engineer was simply trying to minimise that unwanted side effect regardless of who was singing?

[Dantheman06]

If you are looking at RE20 or 27 then you should also look at the RE320, very useful mic.

I usually trust the experienced users but also like to understand the frequncy charts and Watch videos. The RE20 and RE27 behaviour in this video is consistant with their frequency charts available at http://www.electrovoice.com/family.php?id=31 (under the donwload tab)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ESuwVqvSsCk

The RE27 looks smoother than the RE320 and has extended frequency response. In addition you can manage the brightness with the switch. I had the impression that the RE27 N/D could be the most ''condenser-like'' dynamic mic. Why is the RE27 not more popular for recording singers in a studio environment?

Thank

[Bob Bickerton]

Why is the RE27 not more popular for recording singers in a studio environment?

Because most people prefer other mics! It's personal choice and to do with matching the mic to the voice. Don't get distracted by the variable D factor, it only comes into play if there's a problem in the first place, which usually there isn't.

You may find this article http://www.soundonsound.com/techniques/vocal-mics interesting.

Bob

[Tim Gillett]

Why is the RE27 not more popular for recording singers in a studio environment?

Do you mean in relation to the RE20 or to studio vocal mics in general?

[Dantheman06]

Do you mean in relation to the RE20 or to studio vocal mics in general?

Well....I am interested in recording singers in studio environment. My question was originally in relation to recording singers in studio. I usually try to get the best quality at a price I can afford and for now all I can buy is top quality dynamics. If they are top quality I will use them for years even after I buy my multipattern C414 XLS, Neumann etc.

From the you tube video I shared + frequency plot I have the feeling that the RE 27 ND has a very good upper midrange definition and should be closer to a condenser than my SM7B. I still do not understand why it is not more popular for this type of use on this forum. As frequency plots and a single video are not enough to figure out I am getting advices form experienced guys like the ones on this forum.

Now if you compare to the RE20, I think that the peoples who use the RE20 use it for broadcasting and voice over. The RE27 is different enough that it may not please the RE20 users. Doesn't means that it would not be good for recording singers in a studio environment. The impression that I would like to confirm is that the RE27 is more flexible than the RE20. Mostly because of extended frequency response, brightness + switch, better definition etc.

What do you think?

[Jadoube]

I think you have a good collection of microphones as it is. The big EV mics are not commonly used as vocal microphones in the recording studio. In my experience... maybe once or twice I may have used them? I can't even remember. I admit to not recording a ton of rappers. RE20/27 is more of a broadcast mic. I have tried them as other folks here have mentioned... always something else sounds better. Simple as that.

If it were me I would be looking more at what pre-amp/compressor you are driving your mics with. I think you might find more gratification that way!

My 2 cents

[IvanSC]

On the beyerdynamic: I recently got hold of an older post-Tuschel but pre TG M88 for live use, love it and have in fact done some songs using it on my vocal. Not as svelte as the Rode Classic I usually use, but it does add a certain something. Only other dynamic I would really like to own is a 441. Borrowed one from a friend years ago and fell in love, just never had the spare cash at the right time to buy one.
IF you go that route, watch out for the blackfire models, which are not as good as the "real thing" 441 imo. At least they generally sell for less money used....