The worst support from a manufacturer

[Rabid47]

What's the worst support you've ever received from a company? Some companies believe that they are immune from criticism simply because they hold the market share for retail sales, but thanks to the Internet, millions of people at once can learn the true nature of these large corporations and (if they've got any sense) take appropriate action and avoid like the plague.

"I've just heard that Korg has brought out its new Nano series".........

"So".......?

I'd like to get the ball rolling by nominating Korg UK as the sorriest excuse for a support section ever encountered. OK, I'm not a million pound big spender, but my bucks was spent on a Multi-track recorder which actually included a guarantee of support. On May 15, 2008, I sent them an E-Mail requesting some clarification of a System bios update download. I sent another on May 22, May 29, June 7, June 15, June 23, June 29, July 5, July 11, July 19, July 27, July 30, August 4 and August 9, as well as numerous E-Mails to their head office complaining about the shite service. I did'nt get ONE reply back from the (so-called) Support section or the Head office which leads me to believe that Korg do'nt give a flying f**k about supporting people who buy their products. Still, there's always Yamaha and Roland and I've never had anything other than help and respect from Yamaha. Perhaps they could pass the required attributes of not treating their customers like mugs on to Korg. Glad I found out what a non-starter this company is before I spent some SERIOUS money.

Don't let these twats take your money and leave you in the lurch; now you've got a voice too. Perhaps a non-existent customer base would suit their non-existent support policy.

Korg ?

No thanks.

[Ian Stewart]

I have no tolerance for companies that treat customers badly. However without playing devil's advocate there are effective ways of complaining :

Always look for benign explanations, incompetence or innocent mistakes are more likely than indifference to customers.

Perhaps your email is being blocked by anti-spma software.

Check you have the current support email address.

Always assume it is an innocent mistake and be polite, only raise the levels when you come across rudeness or genuine indifference.

If I did not get a reply to my first or second email I would telephone. But always, always be polite, write good English and make good truthful points. If you still don't get anywhere you can then write to the head office in Japan explaining that the U.K. office do not seem to be interested so could they help. That really will start the ball rolling.

Complaining is an art, after all you want to get what you want.

Don't always expect to get understanding. I have just complained about the Marylebone High Street Waitrose, where customers are shouted at and treated like morons at the checkout. The customer service department explained that they were very satisfied with how the store worked and if I wanted the manager would explain everything to me. Still treating me as an idiot of course so I now shop elsewhere.

[ef37a]

I have had multiple dongs ding with Behringer.de but they are a strange lot!

Unhelpful as a Churchrooms Caretaker one moment and then they replaced my BCA2000 twice out of warranty!

One response from them really incensed me though. I was having a playback problem with 2 samples of the UCA202. Their response was "All our technicians are tied up getting a big event underway, no one has time to help you now" !!!!

Now there might be a bit of a language/culture problem in that reply but Berries are surely rich enough to employ an english lass to check such things?
Dave.

[Steve Hill]

On May 15, 2008, I sent them an E-Mail requesting some clarification of a System bios update download. I sent another on May 22, May 29, June 7, June 15, June 23, June 29, July 5, July 11, July 19, July 27, July 30, August 4 and August 9, as well as numerous E-Mails to their head office complaining about the shite service.

So. The only medium of communication you have tried is e-mail. 13 times. And despite ample evidence over approaching three months that e-mail was eliciting no response whatsoever, it did not occur to you to say pick up the phone?

The point already made about spam filters etc is valid. I agree in a perfect world that Korg should maybe try harder, but I wake up most mornings to a handful of real emails and over 100 additional new ones in my junk folder; I scan the junk folder if I have time but ore often than not just delete the lot. I imagine Korg's junk folder gets thousands a day.

Did you just send an email or did you use the support enquiry form embedded in Korg's website? Do you (as Korg specify) give the serial number of the equipment, without which they will not answer (this is clear from their website)? They need the serial number because they will not, reasonably enough, support gear that was supplied outside the UK and therefore they need to check. (They will not for instance provide support if you buy from Thomann in Germany - nor should they).

Their website also makes clear that if you get no response to an email you are welcome to phone:

Technical Support: 01908-857130 Opening Hours 10.00am - 12.30pm, 2pm - 4.30pm, Mon - Fri

[Hugh Robjohns]

Thanks Steve -- you've made all the points I was going to make, and very well too.

Having vented all that steam and bile here, perhape the original poster will now reconsider a more positive and pragmatic approach to getting the information he requires.


Hugh

[ef37a]

Can I make few points re emails and telephones and company service.
Email is "free" and unless you have a company line to steal from, BT is not.
Companies have succesfully diverted complaints by the use of menues and call centre techniquies.
Some of us are hard of hearing and the almost exclusive use of headsets (neg 10 ref a proper phone) in noisy offices, people with heavy accents (of ANY nationality!)make phones a trial for some. In addition, the fact is that when, after pushin N buttons and finally making your problem understood by the chit of a girl on the other end, she doesn't know a Decibel from a Cowbell!

You know when companies "don't want to know" when you have to fill in a complaint form longer than the one I did for Pension Credits.

Maybe being an old fart and used to the likes of Quad, Leak and Wharfedale, I am expecting too much but I like to think that as a service tech' for my company, I would give a customer my best attention however the contact was made.

Dave.

[Rabid47]

On May 15, 2008, I sent them an E-Mail requesting some clarification of a System bios update download. I sent another on May 22, May 29, June 7, June 15, June 23, June 29, July 5, July 11, July 19, July 27, July 30, August 4 and August 9, as well as numerous E-Mails to their head office complaining about the shite service.

So. The only medium of communication you have tried is e-mail. 13 times. And despite ample evidence over approaching three months that e-mail was eliciting no response whatsoever, it did not occur to you to say pick up the phone?

The point already made about spam filters etc is valid. I agree in a perfect world that Korg should maybe try harder, but I wake up most mornings to a handful of real emails and over 100 additional new ones in my junk folder; I scan the junk folder if I have time but ore often than not just delete the lot. I imagine Korg's junk folder gets thousands a day.

Did you just send an email or did you use the support enquiry form embedded in Korg's website? Do you (as Korg specify) give the serial number of the equipment, without which they will not answer (this is clear from their website)? They need the serial number because they will not, reasonably enough, support gear that was supplied outside the UK and therefore they need to check. (They will not for instance provide support if you buy from Thomann in Germany - nor should they).

Their website also makes clear that if you get no response to an email you are welcome to phone:

Technical Support: 01908-857130 Opening Hours 10.00am - 12.30pm, 2pm - 4.30pm, Mon - Fri

I used the Support query form on the Korg website on the 1st occasion, giving date of purchase and serial number. (from a UK retailer). Surely, the point of a website is to do away with traditional postal (paper) services. As I'm already connected to the Internet using the telephone lines, I don't really appreciate the need to telephone someone for support as well, when they've got a (?)dedicated section for this very purpose. And what's the point of phoning anyway? Your'e still dealing with the same ignorant gits. I generally don't like complaining, I'd rather put it down to bad experience and not deal with the company again but I have'nt got the cash to search for an alternate purchase. All replies from Korg go to my In-box as an unblocked sender and not to my Junk folder and I've got no anti-spam filters blocking them. They could have answered any of my 13 E-Mails but the point is they did'nt bother. Bad design or workmanship I might tolerate, indifference I won't.

On the subject of phone calls to the Korg support section, on a previous occasion (for a different piece of kit), the problem was explained to an apparent support expert who's reply to the query was : 'I've never heard of that one, mate'.

Well professional.

[Rabid47]

Nice one Hugh. You really make me feel that I'm the one at fault here. How can you defend third-rate service? Let me know how it feels if it should ever happen to you. My pragmatic approach sort of disappeared when I got the message that I was being ritually ignored, after 2 months wait from a website that promised a reply within 3 working days. Bile? Man, I ain't even started.

[necromunger]

here is two emails i had from m audio about my usb cable not being long enough.

Sorry to hear that the cable is not long enough. Its not a complaint we otherwise get.
Unfortunately we don't carry 5m cables in Europe so I can't help you with a free one.

Sorry about that.

Sorry if I was not clear. M-audio does not sell or stock 5m USB cables in Europe. We have some in the USA still.

The USB cable you are looking to buy from Thomann is not an M-Audio cable but I am glad you found what you need.

the keyboard was MADE IN CHINA not the EU

so if you do get a reply to your e mails just remember it might be a retard on the other end sending it

necro

[Guest]

Bile? Man, I ain't even started.

And you're not going to start here.

May I suggest that you take a deep breath and re-read what Hugh, Steve and Ian have said. None is condoning poor service, far from it, they (and others) are suggesting possible reasons for your lack of success and advising you that as your current approach obviously isn't working, you should try something else. Or perhaps try using the system as instructed. Ok, a reply to your first message would've been the desired outcome but it didn't happen. If, as you say, you then ignored the instructions for using the email contact system, there's every chance that your subsequent messages didn't even reach anyone in a position to deal with them. As Steve pointed out, but you seemed to misunderstand, it might be their email handling/spam filtering that's at fault - possibly compounded by your not following the instructions - not yours.

You say you're stuck with the problem product and the company is ignoring your email so why not risk the price of a phone call. If that doesn't work, you could really push the boat out and shell out for some paper, a pen, an envelope and a stamp. A bit of effort will get you the company's postal address and the name of the MD or Sales Director in the UK or Japan. Dropping them a line explaining politely what problems you're having and how unimpressed you are should get you a result. Even if it's just a grumpy phone call from the bloke in 'Customer Support' who's just had a bollocking and been told to sort out the problem.

I simply can't understand why so many people seem to think that a contact system carrying no guarantee of success, and which has only existed for a couple of decades or so, is now the only way to communicate with the outside world. If one method (especially one as unreliable as email) doesn't work, try another. If you've taken all sensible steps and made real efforts to get an answer and Korg are still not helping, then it's perhaps fair to accuse them of "the worst support from a manufacturer" and publicly rubbish them*. I'll even join you in spreading the bad news but right now I think you need to try again and maybe make a bit more effort than dashing off dozens of possibly misdirected/misrouted emails. A phone call or three might even be less effort than all this typing.

As Ian says, "Complaining is an art, after all you want to get what you want". Do it right and the results often can be better than you ever expected; do it wrong and you'll only end up stressed and getting nowhere.

Whatever you do, 'bile' isn't going to help. And it won't be tolerated here, especially when it's directed at people who are giving up their time trying to help you, even if you don't like what they're telling you.

(* However, if you think Korg are unhelpful after only a couple of months and dozen or so emails, you've seen nothing yet! You should try ploughing through the so called 'Customer Service' departments of Vodafone, Chiltern Railways, or pretty much any high street bank!)

[Hugh Robjohns]

Nice one Hugh. You really make me feel that I'm the one at fault here.

I'm not suggesting you're the one at fault. But if pushing a button doesn't elicit the response you expect, why on earth would you expect pushing it another 13 times to be any better!

I would agree with you that it's a poor show if Korg failed to respond to a legitimate support request on their own web-based system. Normally, these things provide a query number and can be chased up. Was this the case with your Korg query?

In an ideal world, every company would answer every letter, telephone call and email. In my experience most certainly manage that with telephone calls and letters. E-mails, however are an entirely different thing. You have no way of guaranteeing that they reach the company, let alone get directed to the right person and read.

I know for a fact that the SOS SPAM filters trap over 10,000 emails on average every single month. Most of that is junk but some of them are legitimate emails from real people expecting real answers. I expect they get really cheesed off with SOS too... but we're not deliberately ignoring them. It's just the side effect of one of life's necessities.

Hell, sometimes those spam filters even manage to trap expected copy for publication from legitimate authors like me! So I do know how frustrating email corresponence can be sometimes. But there's no way that we can go through those emails and check every one. They just get binned.

I suspect Korg suffers in a similar way, and probably has similar filtering in place. so while I can appreciate your frustration, I don't think it's fair to castigate a company for not responding to emails that you can't prove they have received.

How can you defend third-rate service?

I'm not. I'm suggesting that you aren't being as fair or realistic as you should be.

I was being ritually ignored, after 2 months wait from a website that promised a reply within 3 working days.

I agree that is poor. But again, there may be perfectly legitimate reasons for it. Website forms aren't perfect 100% of the time either. If you got a query number when you posted your request you should be able to chase it up quite easily. You could even try to use the web query system again... It's certainly far more likely to reach the right place than an email.

At the end of the day, though, you're expecting a helpful response from a real human being. Getting stroppy and argumentative isn't likely to help, is it?

I'd use the telephone myself... and I'd be polite and calm too.

Hugh

[Mike Craig]

here is two emails i had from m audio about my usb cable not being long enough............so if you do get a reply to your e mails just remember it might be a retard on the other end sending it

necro

My experience with M-Audio Technical Support has much more positive.

I emailed them to say that I suspected that the "breakout cable" from my Delta 1010 was faulty.

Two days later a replacement cable came through the post by special delivery. I didn't even have to send the faulty one back. Excellent service.

Mike.

[necromunger]

hi
mike

joke is the emails i sent was to there feedback system not tec support.

maybe i should have tried them first for a more helpful reply.

but still these are the ppl that make protools\avid equipment and to be told they don't sell 5m usb leads in the EU is hilarious and then to say they have some left in the USA is crackers.

it was made in china with the usb lead not in the eu.

im sure they have plenty of 5m usb cables in china.

necro

[Ian Stewart]

The thing is once you get a feel for how customer support, tech support, complaint depts etc. work you will find you can get through the system more easily in the future. All of us on this forum probably know what rage is, my wife once pointed out that I was so worked up with an organisation that she could see me shaking.
In some ways keeping calm when firms are behaving in a bad way seems like crawling or backing down. However it is not, succeeding is getting exactly the outcome you want. A few times I have wanted to scrawl rude things over a letter and send it back but I wait until I have calmed down and write a very polite, friendly letter that is impossible to refute or ignore. I think only once have I had to resort to being blatantly offensive and that was with British Airways - they are the most pig headed rude business I have come across so far.

I suppose what we are saying is in your position we would probably feel the same but act differently. Having a recorder I had just bought, but could not use would drive me wild.

[Mike Craig]

Yes Ian.
It's called "anger management" and it's the only way to deal with issues which get tricky or heated. As you say, there is no point in getting wound up. Using the phone is always a good approach and gets you a more personal service. Also, if you are lucky enough to get an email from technical support then keep the email, so you have a contact for the next time you have an issue.

[Rabid47]

Hey Hugh,

Here's the Customer Support query number I was given.

KENQ4928

This was attached to every E-Mail sent to Korg on 13 separate occasions.

From your post, I get the impression that I'm going about getting a response in the wrong way. In the REAL world, if I took £800 from someone, promised them a service and then did'nt deliver, the BEST I could expect would be a good hiding. If a company does the same thing under a corporate name, were all expected to say nothing and not complain.

I don't think so. Those days are LONG gone.

Just remember, for every Korg product sold, a portion of the money is used to fund a Support section. Is it TOO much to ask to get some Support? If I'd got even 1 reply in three months, I would have been prepared to accept this as a SLOW service but these guys are non-existent.

And thanks, Ian: Japan might just be the answer!

[hollowsun]

Manufacturers receive hundreds and hundreds of emails every day - people walk into their office, check their emails and sit there waiting several minutes as it all downloads and then spend hours wading through it. Sad to say, many are barely readable due to 'text speak' and the total abandonment of grammar and punctuation, many others don't explain the problem well, many are just bonkers, many get buried in with other stuff and easily overlooked in error, some come from computers with the wrong date and time set (like 1992, whatever) and end up right down the bottom of the list and some, as mentioned, will never get seen because they are spam filtered at source.

And when ploughing through this daily barrage of email, they're also answering the phone to customers and dealing with other duties.

I find it utterly incomprehensible that you have not thought once to pick up the phone in all this time. The phone is my FIRST port of call EVERY time. If the first phone call doesn't rectify the problem, I phone them again, this time taking names (politely). If all else fails (and it rarely does - except when dealing with huge companies like telecommunications service providers or banks, whatever, via Mumbai call centres), I ask to speak to the manager (and ask for the name so that I can phone back - maybe in case I get mysteriously cut off - and ask for him/her in person).

Email and other electronic means is by far and away THE most unreliable and ephemeral means of serious communication (especially for matters such as this) as you seem to have proved.

This is not the first (and won't be the last) example I have seen of people moaning that they never get email responses from manufacturers. Almost invariably, after being advised to, they have their problem sorted pretty swiftly after just one phone call.

I'm sorry but I am with Steve and hugh and OVU here - you're doing it wrong!

At 10am on Monday, get on the phone to them. Steve gave you the number above which is repeated here:

01908-857130 Opening Hours 10.00am - 12.30pm, 2pm - 4.30pm, Mon - Fri

You may be pleasantly surprised.

But that approach will only work if you are calm and polite and able to explain your problem clearly.

Write off this experience and start from scratch on Monday is my advice.

[Rabid47]

Whatever you do, 'bile' isn't going to help. And it won't be tolerated here, especially when it's directed at people who are giving up their time trying to help you, even if you don't like what they're telling you.

There's no bile directed at anyone on this forum. If you read my original post, you will see that any anger is directed at the Support section of Korg UK. I did'nt post this for help, I posted this to possibly save someone else from the same experience of being ignored by Korg.

Is it possible to debate without being given an ultimatum, please? I thought freedom of speech was legal in the UK.

[comradec]

but still these are the ppl that make protools\avid equipment and to be told they don't sell 5m usb leads in the EU is hilarious and then to say they have some left in the USA is crackers.

I'm not sure whether you wanted M-Audio to provide you with a longer USB cable for free or you were prepared to pay for one, but why would you contact the company about that anyway?

If the cable that originally came with your M-Audio product isn't long enough for your purposes, then surely it's your responsibility to buy one that is. 5m USB cables can be bought from any half-decent computer retailer.

You wouldn't expect M-Audio to give/sell you a mains power extension lead if, say, the 2m one they supplied with a product was too short to reach the mains supply, would you?

[hollowsun]

In the REAL world, if I took £800 from someone, promised them a service and then did'nt deliver, the BEST I could expect would be a good hiding.

You're not comparing like with like.

If YOU as a private individual sold a single item to another person, yes - it would reprehensible if you didn't support them. But if you sold 10,000 units to 10,000 people, the scale of support rises exponentially.

One thing I didn't mention in my previous post is that, in these days of Europe and globalisation and open markets, the likes of Korg UK are getting emails from people in Germany, France, wherever, who bought their unit mail order from the UK which complicates things further.

I can understand your frustration - we've all been there - but I fail to see why you have so much resistance to just picking up the phone and speaking to a person as has been suggested several times here already.

Yes - I am defending manufacturers because I am on that side of the fence professionally and have been there and done tech support myself (I don't work for Korg by the way and never have). But I am also a consumer and once had a Korg Triton and had a few questions about it. I phoned them, was put through to someone pretty much immediately who answered my questions then and there. I took his name and spoke to him once or twice afterwards. I can imagine that had I decided to email those same queries to them or use the on-line form, they may well have been lost in the daily melee of crap they get.

Phone them on Monday.

[comradec]

Phone them on Monday.

And be nice.

[Rabid47]

Yeah, but I'm not 10,000 people buying 10,000 units. I'm 1 person who Korg feels they can comfortably afford to ignore. Maybe when they've ignored 9,999 other individuals it might start affecting their sales. THEN, they might start getting their act together. And I might also point out that at no time was I rude or pushy in any of the E-Mails sent back to Korg on 13 occasions. Yep, they can sure move fast enough when they're taking your money.

[Rabid47]

Dealing with Korg has really made me appreciate what a genuine asset people like Dusty Miller from Yamaha truly are to their companies.

Priceless.

[Rabid47]

5m USB cables can be bought from any half-decent computer retailer.

And many £1 shops. I've just bought 30 for £30 and am currently selling at £5 each. (No, I'm not trying to sell you one! ).

[hollowsun]

And I might also point out that at no time was I rude or pushy in any of the E-Mails sent back to Korg on 13 occasions.

But again - you are assuming that they received your query/complaint *personally* (that ref number you got from the online support form was probably electronically generated).

Yep, they can sure move fast enough when they're taking your money.

What? Did you buy this thing directly from Korg UK who ripped your hand off for your money? I suspect it was Korg's APPOINTED dealer who took your money. Maybe you should have approached them first - dealers are the manufacturers' distributors' first line of defence. Dealers are in a position to assist, answer tech stuff and in the case of a fault, offer a solution (refund, repair, alternative product). If that fails, THEN you contact the manufacturer's distributor. But....

And I don't know how this can be made clearer....

You have used email (or whatever - it's not clear from your posts) 13 times over a period of months and not received a satisfactory solution. You don't even state what the nature of your problem is (operational, functional, false advertising, mechanical fault - what?). But, despite 13 emails and no reply (for whatever reason), you still haven't had the presence of mind to just pick up the phone and speak to someone who could actually help you.

I'm sorry but when you abandon common sense, it's hard to be sympathetic to your plight or your potentially slanderous accusations against a company who - for whatever reason beyond their control - might not even be aware of your problems.

Phone them on Monday and be calm and polite, explain your problem carefully and clearly with all the information they need to resolve this and seek a solution with a PERSON, not some damned anonymous, flakey on-line thing or email.

I'll give you a real world example of how this can work....

Last week, our kettle just stopped working. Checked the fuse and everything - no ... the thing was buggered. So I checked out their website and went to the CONTACT section. It was an online form thing. A few minutes of poking around got me their phone number and I called them, was transferred pretty much immediately and explained the situation calmly and politely. Even though our kettle was out of guarantee, they sent a replacement without question. Top marks for Morphy Richardson. Had the same with Bristan taps. As mentioned as well, had some issues with my Korg Triton but I phoned them, spoke to someone at Korg UK and resolved them in minutes.

Phone them Monday! What is so hard to understand?