Building a 70s system??

[mikehende]

So guys, I have been dancing all around this for a long time now but seems I had not considered the most basic question which is, if I put together all 70's equipment but play music from my pc or fm radio, would I still get analog sound please?

[Eddy Deegan]

So guys, I have been dancing all around this for a long time now but seems I had not considered the most basic question which is, if I put together all 70's equipment but play music from my pc or fm radio, would I still get analog sound please?

Assuming '70s amplification, speakers and (if applicable) desk then these components will affect the sound reproduction of anything you feed into the inputs to some extent. As to whether that's a good thing is up for debate, but it'll depend on the kit in question.

Now, if you play something from your PC through it, it too will be affected by the analogue circuitry of the desk and/or amplifier but the source will obviously be a digitally replayed thing of some kind.

If it's an mp3 then it'll sound exactly as it would have done if you had an mp3 player back in the '70s.

[Hugh Robjohns]

All sound is analogue. We have analogue ears. The air is an analogue medium. Loudspeakers are analogue transducers.

However, your sources -- PC and FM radio -- both involve digital processing, both are inherently band-limited, with all the time-domain filter ringing associated with those constraints.

If you want genuinely all-analogue, you'll need all-analogue sources, which means tape, cassette or vinyl and manufactured before the late 1970s.

I suspect what you really mean is, 'Would I like the sound from such a system, and will it remind me of the fun times I had in the 70s?'

...but none of us can answer that!

[mikehende]

I would like to get the same "tone" of music from the equipment used back then but of course that was playing music from records and tape.

Now I play mp3's from my music software. I am thinking of getting a 70s receiver, eq and speakers.

[Eddy Deegan]

I would like to get the same "tone" of music from the equipment used back then but of course that was playing music from records and tape.

Now I play mp3's from my music software. I am thinking of getting a 70s receiver, eq and speakers.

Sure, so you'll have the sound of a modern mp3 being played through '70s equipment. As there were no mp3 players back then it'll probably sound different than anything from the '70s did, but will be genuine in that it is what it would have sounded like if you did have a PC back then

It probably won't sound much like the original tapes or records though; for that you'd need the original tapes or records and a '70s record player or cassette machine to play them.

[mikehende]

That makes sense so would defeat the purpose if I won't get that same sound due to the source of the music.

[Hugh Robjohns]

I would like to get the same "tone" of music from the equipment used back then....

You mean music made back before the increasingly heavy-handed 'loudness wars' kicked in?

You mean the original music, rather than the re-issued, re-mastered and made-louder-and brighter-just-because-we-can trash that manifests as archive classics today?

No chance!

If you want 70s (and older) music, you'll need to buy original 70s (and older) music! Which, in practical terms, means original vinyl discs.

[mikehende]

Yeah, I have no desire, patience or energy to play records one at a time anymore and had sold my collection years ago.

I guess what I was looking into is some sort of possible "simulator" option which might give me that sound in the same way that in my other thread on Space Echo that a modern foot pedal could gave the same sound of the Tape Space Echo unit.

[Hugh Robjohns]

Nothing you can really do to simulate the greater dynamics of pre-80s music. But you could roll off some of the HF and dial in some gentle distortion to approximate the general tonality.

But fundamentally, the reason 70s music sound so recognisable is because it was made differently back then!

[mikehende]

Got it, well I had to try before actually purchasing anything so I appreciate the info and help guys, thanks, be safe.

[MOF]

And of course all radio, even FM, comes through a digital system now, digitised records on their servers a digital mixer and even their Optimod or equivalent at the transmitter will be digital.

[mikehende]

Yeah I know, thx.

[Mike Stranks]

I stand to be corrected. but I recall reading an article in HiFi News in 1969 about early experiments with transferring audio digitally from Broadcasting House to FM transmitters... so 'digital' is probably older than we think...

Date may be wrong, but it would have been early 70s at the latest...

[Hugh Robjohns]

There were some developmental experiments in the Beeb's transmission network in the late 60s, but the first full multichannel 13-bit linear PCM studio to transmitter link officially entered service in 1972. At about the same time, a lossy codec system (Sound-in-Syncs) was used to carry mono sound within the TV picture signal between studio and transmitters in 1971.

As always, the impetus was to reduce the costs of hiring high quality audio circuits from the GPO (now BT). The added benefits of better reliability and quality were welcome side effects, but not the spur.

But digital technology was expensive and relatively crude in the late 60s /early 70s. As the technology started to take off, costs fell and quality slowly improved, but it wasn't until the launch of the CD in the early 80s that it really started to leap forward in quality and cost.

Amusingly, or frighteningly, depending on your point of view, when digital delay lines became 'good enough' they started to be used on vinyl cutting lathes to delay the sound going to the cutter head, giving the vari-groove system time to optimise the groove pitch. The technique befor the advent of high quality DDLs was to fit extra guides to create a tape loop with an extra pre-read head on the master tape player. So some vinyl pressing are actually digital too....

[James Perrett]

There were some developmental experiments in the Beeb's transmission network in the late 60s, but the first full multichannel 13-bit linear PCM studio to transmitter link officially entered service in 1972.

And at the time I was living in an area where I could easily receive both Wrotham (digital) and Rowridge (analogue). There was a noticeable difference in audio quality between them.

[Hugh Robjohns]

For anyone interested in learning more about the pioneering digital work the BBC did in the 70s and 80s, there's a very thorough explanation of the Beeb's PCM, SiS, and later NICAM systems here:

https://www.bbceng.info/Technical%20Reviews/pcm-nicam/digits-fm.html

[Mike Stranks]

Thanks Hugh!

I did remember that the article was by Angus MacKenzie so it must have been November 1972... came as revelation to me at the time...

It's interesting to note that A MacKenzie comments on the specific S/N improvement from 58dB to 65dB.... these days we don't know we're born... My first decent-domestic tape-recorder purchased in 1971 had a S/N ratio of 45 dB!

[Hugh Robjohns]

And the BBC PPM shows only 24dB of usable dynamic range. Thou shalt not peak above 6, nor let the needle fall below 1 (for more than a few seconds without very good reason!)

To be fair, the transmission chain only carries audio which has been carefully controlled and its dynamic range constrained, so a 50 or 60dB S/N ratio is quite workable. Source recordings with unpredictable dynamic range obviously require a larger S/N ratio.

[Dynamic Mike]

I recall music sounding better on my 70's sound system than anything I hear now. I've kept most of my vinyl collection & from time to time have considered recreating the system I used to have to see if I'm just deluding myself. As a project it might be fun & not that expensive. But as anyone who's rebuit a classic car discovers, there's usually a good reason they don't make 'em like they used to.

Also, I suspect I'll find what I'm really nostalically yearning for are the ears that I had back in the 70's.

[James Perrett]

I did remember that the article was by Angus MacKenzie so it must have been November 1972... came as revelation to me at the time...

I remember seeing a very similar article. I have a few copies of Hifi News from that era so I'll see if it was in one of those.

[James Perrett]

I recall music sounding better on my 70's sound system than anything I hear now.

I'm still using quite a bit of 70's (and early 80's) technology here. Some of it sounds great while some of it is not so great. In particular, the posh Dynatron hifi system that I used to use for much of my home listening back in the 80's now sounds tubby and dull compared to the Quad/Tannoy combination in the studio. I think it could be due for a makeover.

[Mike Stranks]

And the BBC PPM shows only 24dB of usable dynamic range. Thou shalt not peak above 6, nor let the needle fall below 1 (for more than a few seconds without very good reason!)

To be fair, the transmission chain only carries audio which has been carefully controlled and its dynamic range constrained, so a 50 or 60dB S/N ratio is quite workable. Source recordings with unpredictable dynamic range obviously require a larger S/N ratio.

Ah yes! When I was introduced to PPMs in the mid-'70s (when I started doing work for BBC Local Radio) it was drummed into me, "6 and 4, Mike, 6 and 4!"

[Arpangel]

Why would you want to do this? The main reason I can think of is firstly, the workflow, working with older gear tends to make you think a certain way, and ergonomics, and technical issues force you to end up in a different place than you would in a digital environment, the only other reason is pure nostalgia.
It’s best not to think in terms of a specific era, regarding equipment, go into many studios today and you’ll see analogue and digital and everything in between, all mixed up, I have a 70's portastudio, two computers, analogue classic synths and modern digital stuff, it’s best to mix and match, it gives you more contrast, different flavours.

[Zukan]

And don't forget to use USB 1, you know, for that warm vintage vibe.

[CS70]

So guys, I have been dancing all around this for a long time now but seems I had not considered the most basic question which is, if I put together all 70's equipment but play music from my pc or fm radio, would I still get analog sound please?

I would put together 70's equipment if it gave me Gloria Gaynor and Olivia Newton-John singing a duet in my living room over a groove played by Benny Benjamin and James Jamerson. And of course I want the exact 70s looks, at least for Gloria and Olivia - nothing short of a perfect reproduction will do.

About as much chance as you getting "analog sound", alas