New MBP Review in SOS

[Howdy Doody Time]

What a glowing review!

One of the "Key Attractions" listed was the set of 4 Thunderbolt ports. Obviously he didn't try connecting them to anything, which doubles the footprint of the thing, and causes power problems if 2 or more of them are heavy on the juice. Of course that problem may be restricted (among many other problems) to the earlier (by 3 months in my case) version. The sound is good, but would you seriously use it for checking mixes in the studio? The price is carefully listed at 2399, but we are reminded of the "game" on the online store where the minimum price is on the biggest ticket, however the review model costs in excess of six thousand pounds. The omission in the Cons section, I would argue, is that in 3 months time, any faults in this machine will be rectified by the release of a "better model" and the customer can eat that or whatever, because Apple will not give a fig. This actually happened to the reviewer (as well as me and countless others) but he cheerfully eats it.

Ho hum!

[johnny h]

Always check the rumours before buying any Apple products. The 16” was very widely expected.

[Howdy Doody Time]

Always check the rumours before buying any Apple products. The 16” was very widely expected.

I have bought my last Apple Mac. There are much better (and way cheaper) machines. But yes, I agree if you must buy a Mac, then sift through the chatter. It's by no means the first time I've been caught out by Apple, but it is certainly the last.

[johnny h]

Always check the rumours before buying any Apple products. The 16” was very widely expected.

I have bought my last Apple Mac. There are much better (and way cheaper) machines.

Than the 16"? I'm yet to find a machine that combines low weight, high performance and high battery life that also chucks in an incredible screen, great sound and beautiful aesthetics. Either they're poorly built MacBook knockoffs or huge gamer monsters with terrible battery life.

[Howdy Doody Time]

Always check the rumours before buying any Apple products. The 16” was very widely expected.

I have bought my last Apple Mac. There are much better (and way cheaper) machines.

Than the 16"? I'm yet to find a machine that combines low weight, high performance and high battery life that also chucks in an incredible screen, great sound and beautiful aesthetics. Either they're poorly built MacBook knockoffs or huge gamer monsters with terrible battery life.

Even if that were remotely true, they would be reliable, quiet, and the software would work. Catalina still defeats Steinberg as we speak. More informed sources than I have published concern that the latest Macs are overpriced and under performers compared with some of the competition, especially in the realm of professional graphics systems.

I know I am moaning again, but really, lets be honest, out here in the sticks, the rumour mills are not something I frequent, and to do so would not really bear much fruit. You never know when the latest Macs will be available here, and when they are the import duty is enormous. Now to outlay a considerable amount of cash on my 2019 15" MBP with an 8 core i9 and massive memory etc. only to find many problems ranging from dongles that do not work with thunderbolt, to USB things that stop working when HDMI is plugged in to the same hub, red hot hubs, noisy fans and a keyboard that only just trumps a ZX Spectrum, - well it's disappointing, despite the protestations of the Apple aficionados.

Has anyone at all noticed that nearly all the Mac problem pages on the tinter web publish all the questions begging for answers, and the most common response is "I have the same problem" Apple certainly never makes an appearance, and questions are answered too infrequently. It's a case of Sort it out amongst yourselves boys and girls.

I have a mid 2011 iMac with 8GB and a 2.8GHz Intel i7 processor and it gets switched on in preference to the new MBP every time.

So for me, reading a glowing review of the machine I thought I was buying pretty recently, is a bit annoying. What is the second hand value of the thing I did buy, and which largely resides in the spares box?

Rant definitely over.

[Kwackman]

Catalina still defeats Steinberg as we speak.

Eh?
My (new to me) second hand mac-mini has Catalina, and it's been running Cubase fine since I got it a few weeks ago.
Maybe I'm lucky?

[johnny h]

More informed sources than I have published concern that the latest Macs are overpriced and under performers compared with some of the competition, especially in the realm of professional graphics systems.

Like I said, I've looked, and I can't find anything with high performance, low weight and great battery life, let alone with comparable build quality and screen. I don't care about big thirsty graphics cards.

I know I am moaning again, but really, lets be honest, out here in the sticks, the rumour mills are not something I frequent, and to do so would not really bear much fruit.

They still have internet access out there in the sticks. You never know when the latest Macs will be available here
https://buyersguide.macrumors.com/#Mac

You're welcome!

dongles that do not work with thunderbolt, to USB things that stop working when HDMI is plugged in to the same hub, red hot hubs, noisy fans and a keyboard that only just trumps a ZX Spectrum, - well it's disappointing, despite the protestations of the Apple aficionados.

Apple put the old keyboard back in and got rid of the crappy toy one thank god. I hate it. Also they've upgraded the cooling system so it can run much faster on the same hardware.

So for me, reading a glowing review of the machine I thought I was buying pretty recently, is a bit annoying. What is the second hand value of the thing I did buy, and which largely resides in the spares box?

Rant definitely over.

If you dont use it, sell it. You'll have the twin benefit of having some of your money back and also not wasting time complaining about it every other day on this forum!

[Howdy Doody Time]

"If you dont use it, sell it. You'll have the twin benefit of having some of your money back and also not wasting time complaining about it every other day on this forum!"

I don't need to sell it. it may come in handy as a heater if it gets cold this winter, it's resale value is next to worthless anyway, and I'd feel guilty foisting it on someone else.

This forum describes itself as being to advise new and existing Mac users. So if you don't mind I will speak as I find. I own and use five Mac's right now, so I'm qualified to express my opinion here, if you don't like it, don't read it, - otherwise you are wasting your own time.

My Cubase also works fine with Catalina, but Nuendo does not. You haven't heard of Nuendo I suppose?

Apple consistently ignore their user base because their user base is mainly ultra loyal and they will buy whatever Apple throw at them. The sycophantic twaddle you recommend I consult when I want to buy a computer is for those people. I respectfully decline.

I'm not by any means an isolated complainer - there are a lot of unhappy users - foe example see -
https://www.forbes.com/sites/ewanspence ... 089d9a1035

[Kwackman]

My Cubase also works fine with Catalina, but Nuendo does not. You haven't heard of Nuendo I suppose?

I have thanks.
But you said "Catalina still defeats Steinberg as we speak".
As Cubase is their main product, I thought I'd chime in in case someone reading your comments thought that Cubase won't work with Catalina.

[MOF]

Two friends of mine have the 15”MBP 6 core i9 with 32GB of memory. Apart from having to buy a USB C to USB 2 interface for usb dongles etc they’ve had no problems, they use them with external Thunderbolt monitors at home and the MBP screen comes in handy as an extra monitor. I don’t think they’ve upgraded to Catalina yet.

[johnny h]

"If you dont use it, sell it. You'll have the twin benefit of having some of your money back and also not wasting time complaining about it every other day on this forum!"

I don't need to sell it. it may come in handy as a heater if it gets cold this winter, it's resale value is next to worthless anyway, and I'd feel guilty foisting it on someone else.

This forum describes itself as being to advise new and existing Mac users. So if you don't mind I will speak as I find. I own and use five Mac's right now, so I'm qualified to express my opinion here, if you don't like it, don't read it, - otherwise you are wasting your own time.

My Cubase also works fine with Catalina, but Nuendo does not. You haven't heard of Nuendo I suppose?

Apple consistently ignore their user base because their user base is mainly ultra loyal and they will buy whatever Apple throw at them. The sycophantic twaddle you recommend I consult when I want to buy a computer is for those people. I respectfully decline.

Hmm. Well, I hate the butterfly MacBook keyboards. They are absolutely terrible! I wanted the 8 core but I was waiting for Apple to fix the terrible keyboard and thanks to reading that site I knew that they would do so in their redesigned 16".

I also knew that Catalina would cause havoc with music software, hence why I am waiting for all issues to be resolved before I get the pleasure of receiving a lovely fast 8 core with a keyboard that works and a 50% more efficient cooling system and a bigger, brighter, higher resolution 16" display.

Think of all the time, money and hassle I saved myself by doing a tiny bit of research! I'd recommend anyone doing the same.

[Sam Spoons]

Apple consistently ignore their user base because their user base is mainly ultra loyal and they will buy whatever Apple throw at them.

I agree with this comment, I am a late convert to Apple and the above is hugely disappointing especially as I moved away from Windoze (around the time W8 was released) for much those reasons.

It's all made worse by the fact that, in so many ways, Apple products are so good. I currently have 2008 cheese grater Mac in the 'studio', a 2012 MBP, iPad mini4 and an iPhone 6S. I doubt I'll ever be able to justify a new MBP or Mac Pro at those prices (and my old kit is plenty fast enough for my needs).

[johnny h]

Apple consistently ignore their user base because their user base is mainly ultra loyal and they will buy whatever Apple throw at them.

I agree with this comment

This was true maybe 3 years ago when they were even thinking of scrapping the headphone port on the MacBook Pro.

Since those dark times they have increased the battery life, performance, cooling system and keyboard at the expense of size / weight. Also they have brought the escape key and the cursor T layout back through customer feedback.

At the same time they have brought back the much loved classic Mac Pro tower.

[Howdy Doody Time]

Apple consistently ignore their user base because their user base is mainly ultra loyal and they will buy whatever Apple throw at them.

I agree with this comment, I am a late convert to Apple and the above is hugely disappointing especially as I moved away from Windoze (around the time W8 was released) for much those reasons.

It's all made worse by the fact that, in so many ways, Apple products are so good. I currently have 2008 cheese grater Mac in the 'studio', a 2012 MBP, iPad mini4 and an iPhone 6S. I doubt I'll ever be able to justify a new MBP or Mac Pro at those prices (and my old kit is plenty fast enough for my needs).

my 2011 iMac with an i7 is so good I kept looking for an i9 just to be ahead of the game, so I jumped at the first one. I'm always saying I'll jump ship, but the thing is I like Macs, and I just can't stand Windows 10. So now I've got my rant out of my system, I'll stick with Mac and wait for Catalina to be either scrapped or fixed. I saw the new cheese graters in the Mac shop in Bangkok a couple of weeks back and they look super. Smaller than you'd think.

[ManFromGlass]

Apple consistently ignore their user base because their user base is mainly ultra loyal and they will buy whatever Apple throw at them.

With all due respect - nuts to that. If you are in the Mac world you stick with your current machine(s) or you upgrade to what you think you need. It can drive you crazy sometimes because they like to do the two steps forward one step backwards dance. Always cool new features, always a few goofy inclusions. Apple definitely listen both to hardware and software suggestions. Logic Pro is proof of that, but again 2 steps forward and 1 back.

[Humble Bee]

I didn’t need to read the review of the new 16 inch roadster to know that it is one fine machine and if I had the cash I would be all over it as a mobile alternative to my my 2018 Mac Mini i7 (which is a damn fine machine as well).

So Howdy just promote yours to heating duties or sell it. And get something else that suits your needs. I think it will do you well.

[Nazard]

Macs. We ran a consultancy building bespoke UNiX solutions, using Informix, SQL/4GL for mainframes and UNIX boxes. Guess what? We bought several thousand pounds of Apple kit, back in 1990, for DTP, etc.. The later variants actually cost more than a small car.

I am typing this on an MBPro. Macs are the best laptops, period. I can buy whatever I like, but seriously, you want something like a Dell 13 XPS? The screen is atrocious for starters......

[n o i s e f l e ur]

Attrocious how?

[Nazard]

Out of the box, the Apple retina screens look good, and that's before I hardware calibrate them. The Dell series I've looked at, (but haven't calibrated), look very poor. However, I am always willing to change my mind and will have another look.

And nowadays I am very much a PC user, (but with Macs and Linux boxes for company.

[James Perrett]

but seriously, you want something like a Dell 13 XPS? The screen is atrocious for starters......

I'd have thought that a Dell Precision is closer to a Macbook Pro - certainly my 2012 vintage one contains similar components to those used in a Macbook of the same era.

I just specced up the most powerful Precision 5540 with:
- Intel® Core™ Processor i9-9980HK (8 Core, 16MB Cache, 2.40GHz up to 5.00GHz Turbo, 45W)
- Windows 10 Pro, 64bit English, Dutch, French, German, Italian
- Nvidia Quadro T2000 w/4GB GDDR5
- 64GB, 2x32GB, DDR4 2666MHz Non-ECC Memory
- M.2 1TB PCIe NVMe Class 40 Solid State Drive
- 15.6" Ultrasharp OLED UHD, 3840x2160

which came to £3257 + VAT.

[n o i s e f l e ur]

Were the Dell models specced out similarly to the MBP? I guess what I'm asking is, was this (forgive the pun) an apples to apples comparison?

As you've noted, for those where this is a serious consideration there's calibration. It's been a few years since I last had a MBP and admittedly the screen was quite nice.

[n o i s e f l e ur]

James, we had an Inspiron here with almost identical specs to my last MBP - with the screen being the only real departure in terms of hardware. You certainly don't need to go up to the Precision line to get comparable (or better) performance.

I would say the XPS line is probably the best comparison in terms of overall spec, aesthetic etc.

I can tell you now that the Inspiron still performs like a champ whereas the MBP is absolutely on its last legs due to thermal issues. Fair enough, the Inspiron is a 17" - but so would the MBP have been had Apple not decided to EOL that form-factor.

Our previous 17" MBP also suffered from terrible thermals, not to mention the battery swelling / burst case AND the nVidia GPU desolder debacle.

[James Perrett]

Were the Dell models specced out similarly to the MBP? I guess what I'm asking is, was this (forgive the pun) an apples to apples comparison?

Just specced a similar MBP and it came to £3482 plus VAT. The graphics chip is different and the Dell warranty is better so I've included Applecare + in the Apple price which is the closest I can get to the Dell warranty. Dell don't give you the option of large SSD's though they go up to 2TB if you want. A lower performing Precision could also include a second disk drive but the memory and processor in this one need a larger battery which seems to prevent the second drive from being fitted. The Dell also comes with a slightly higher resolution display but I've no idea how well it can be calibrated as I'm not a graphics person.

The price isn't drastically different assuming that the Apple is a similarly high quality machine.

[n o i s e f l e ur]

I was addressing that question to Trevor actually James, WRT the assertion the XPS screens were attrocious on the 13".

Personally I think I'd be happy with the new MBP or a similarly specced Dell (of a comparable model) - if I could get on with the terrible kbd on the Mac (no, not referring to the scissor vs butterfly issue) and various other MacOS foibles and conventions I don't get along with.

[Howdy Doody Time]

but seriously, you want something like a Dell 13 XPS? The screen is atrocious for starters......

I'd have thought that a Dell Precision is closer to a Macbook Pro - certainly my 2012 vintage one contains similar components to those used in a Macbook of the same era.

I just specced up the most powerful Precision 5540 with:
- Intel® Core™ Processor i9-9980HK (8 Core, 16MB Cache, 2.40GHz up to 5.00GHz Turbo, 45W)
- Windows 10 Pro, 64bit English, Dutch, French, German, Italian
- Nvidia Quadro T2000 w/4GB GDDR5
- 64GB, 2x32GB, DDR4 2666MHz Non-ECC Memory
- M.2 1TB PCIe NVMe Class 40 Solid State Drive
- 15.6" Ultrasharp OLED UHD, 3840x2160

which came to £3257 + VAT.

Looks seriously like a six grand MBP