Hey SOS.
Just wondering what R&B / Dance and any other MIDI using producers when they start a new project. - I mean, Its puzzled me for a while where I would start when writing a Dance Track for example, do I start with a vocal melody and work around that? and what about when a dance artist comes to your studio - Do they bring ideas to the board or none at all?
Cheers.
Recording / Writing Dance Music.
Re: Recording / Writing Dance Music.
Evening!
All my best tunes start with a beer, then drums, then a bass line... then some trimmings, and then a LOT of arranging (especially programming variations in the drum rhythms).
And don't forget the beer.
Cheers!
Chris
All my best tunes start with a beer, then drums, then a bass line... then some trimmings, and then a LOT of arranging (especially programming variations in the drum rhythms).
And don't forget the beer.
Cheers!
Chris
Re: Recording / Writing Dance Music.
It's usually best to start with a beat then build up from there. Especially loop based dance music. Loop the beat, add a bass line or chord progression, keep adding sounds, percussion etc. Copy and paste the parts and then delete parts to build up the track and break it down.
I've worked with a few people, usually though it's inspired when the track is underway. Sometimes they've come with an idea that is the seed of the track, but this can often get replaced or mutated into something completely different.
I've worked with a few people, usually though it's inspired when the track is underway. Sometimes they've come with an idea that is the seed of the track, but this can often get replaced or mutated into something completely different.
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- Richie Royale
Frequent Poster - Posts: 4551 Joined: Tue Sep 12, 2006 12:00 am Location: Bristol, England.
Re: Recording / Writing Dance Music.
Hi Nathy,
I've been a professional producer/engineer in the dance community for roughly 10 years. If I may, I'd like to give my take on what you're asking.
Dance music is driven by the percussion, that's why everyone who doesn't get it, says it all sounds the same.
When I write I start with the biggest sounds first, the kick and the bassline. Most of todays dance music is pretty bassline driven, take for example breakbeat, fidget house, and electro house. Of course, there are plenty of other genre to the big picture, but all of them have at least one thing in common....an electronic drum beat, so start there.
Once you've gotten the correct kick drum for your project (ie it fits in to the genre of dance you want to produce in), move on to a "simple" percussive bed (it can always be added to to fit the genre you want), a clap or snare, and a high hat. I recommend this just to give you a sense of rhythmn. Next tackle the second largest sound, the bassline or what ever the case may be.
Typically, I'll make sure my kick drum peaks (and does not exceed) at -7db. This is just something I do, there's no science behind it, other than years of experience. It works for me. That being said, NEVER EVER change it. If your mix starts to get cluttered, figure out the problems, rather than turn the volume of the sounds getting lost.
After I've got my kick, simple percussion, and bassline well enough engineered, I move onto what I need next to create a cohesive project.
Without sounding like an advertisement, check out www.beatport.com and do a search for DJ Hero. Perhaps you can get some ideas, some inspiration, and some more guidence from a hand full of other tracks in the industry.
I've been a professional producer/engineer in the dance community for roughly 10 years. If I may, I'd like to give my take on what you're asking.
Dance music is driven by the percussion, that's why everyone who doesn't get it, says it all sounds the same.
When I write I start with the biggest sounds first, the kick and the bassline. Most of todays dance music is pretty bassline driven, take for example breakbeat, fidget house, and electro house. Of course, there are plenty of other genre to the big picture, but all of them have at least one thing in common....an electronic drum beat, so start there.
Once you've gotten the correct kick drum for your project (ie it fits in to the genre of dance you want to produce in), move on to a "simple" percussive bed (it can always be added to to fit the genre you want), a clap or snare, and a high hat. I recommend this just to give you a sense of rhythmn. Next tackle the second largest sound, the bassline or what ever the case may be.
Typically, I'll make sure my kick drum peaks (and does not exceed) at -7db. This is just something I do, there's no science behind it, other than years of experience. It works for me. That being said, NEVER EVER change it. If your mix starts to get cluttered, figure out the problems, rather than turn the volume of the sounds getting lost.
After I've got my kick, simple percussion, and bassline well enough engineered, I move onto what I need next to create a cohesive project.
Without sounding like an advertisement, check out www.beatport.com and do a search for DJ Hero. Perhaps you can get some ideas, some inspiration, and some more guidence from a hand full of other tracks in the industry.
"Perfect yourself in Solitude, prove yourself in public." www.velcrocityrecords.com
Re: Recording / Writing Dance Music.
nice advice about "dont touch it - sort the issues out instead of just turning up".
Battenburg to the power of 20 - said by Richie Royale in a moment of genius. 4pm. Wed 16th Nov 2011. Remember where you were....
Re: Recording / Writing Dance Music.
There are no rules to electronic music thats one thing I like about it, once you start adding rules I find it starts to become formulatic and boring.
Start with what ever you feel like to start with....you don't have to quantize everything to 16th's you don't have to put a snare on 2 and 4th..just because most people do doesn't mean you have to copy..do what YOU feel.
I start with different things every day..not every song is the same, most ideas come from noodeling about with stuff any way be it MPC, synth, sample, turntable or what ever.
I do get endless questions how to make "imitation" house on how to make french filter house or DJ Sneak style stuff..so I made a video as I called it "for the sheep" lol
I basicaly re-make a Le Knight Club tune only using the MPC (I do have more gear but sometimes it's better to limmit yourself in terms of gear to get the creative juices flowing)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yIgaGtjaoG8&feature=channel_page
Start with what ever you feel like to start with....you don't have to quantize everything to 16th's you don't have to put a snare on 2 and 4th..just because most people do doesn't mean you have to copy..do what YOU feel.
I start with different things every day..not every song is the same, most ideas come from noodeling about with stuff any way be it MPC, synth, sample, turntable or what ever.
I do get endless questions how to make "imitation" house on how to make french filter house or DJ Sneak style stuff..so I made a video as I called it "for the sheep" lol
I basicaly re-make a Le Knight Club tune only using the MPC (I do have more gear but sometimes it's better to limmit yourself in terms of gear to get the creative juices flowing)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yIgaGtjaoG8&feature=channel_page
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- vinyl_junkie
Frequent Poster - Posts: 1579 Joined: Tue Jun 24, 2003 12:00 am Location: Kent, UK
Re: Recording / Writing Dance Music.
Most good dance/r&b/hip-hop producers were dj's first (Pete Rock, DJ Spinna, Larry Levan etc) and will have a wide knowlage of music from all corners/genres and sampling is big thing in hip-hop or house esp that pesky filter house...
For example the new'ish Sneak tune samples MFSB's-Sexy..it's all about finding that right break
Go diggin, get inspired or twiddle a synth...it's all good man
Sample comes in at 1.33mins >
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w0H6kRDjs58&feature=channel_page
the tune
http://mp3.juno.co.uk/MP3/SF317940-01-02-01.mp3
For example the new'ish Sneak tune samples MFSB's-Sexy..it's all about finding that right break
Go diggin, get inspired or twiddle a synth...it's all good man
Sample comes in at 1.33mins >
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w0H6kRDjs58&feature=channel_page
the tune
http://mp3.juno.co.uk/MP3/SF317940-01-02-01.mp3
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- vinyl_junkie
Frequent Poster - Posts: 1579 Joined: Tue Jun 24, 2003 12:00 am Location: Kent, UK
Re: Recording / Writing Dance Music.
Thanks guys, this is all awesome to find out, I've never been a big fan of using synths (Just because I never could get the sound I wanted out of my head and onto the paper / pc). I was taught to use Cubase and Reason, which I found fantastic, but I was to impatient to look upon lists and lists of different sounds. But I guess thats what I've got to do 
Although now I use Logic 9 and loving the synths on it. (& The Delay creator).
I will hopefully start making some 'Bangin'' tunes and pop them up.
But still bring on the tips It may be helpful for other users, not just mean.
Thanks again,x
Although now I use Logic 9 and loving the synths on it. (& The Delay creator).I will hopefully start making some 'Bangin'' tunes and pop them up.
But still bring on the tips
It may be helpful for other users, not just mean.Thanks again,x
Re: Recording / Writing Dance Music.
Leave room for 'accidents' (ie serendipitous mistakes, often while using step sequencers, either original hardware or software versions) where you're trying for one thing but something better turns up instead. There's quite a few big tunes out there in all genres where some quirky little line that 'makes the tune' started as a mistake but turned into the main hook !
By all means start by trying to copy some good tune- you can learn a lot that way- but finding something original often means throwing all the rules away.
By all means start by trying to copy some good tune- you can learn a lot that way- but finding something original often means throwing all the rules away.
Re: Recording / Writing Dance Music.
"There's no rules"?
I beg to differ, but before I do I'll say this.
There's only two reasons to make music.
01. You can make music for the sake of making music, at which point there are no rules.
02. You make music for the sake of distribution, at which point there are more rules than I care to get into.
Like any part of the music industry if you are writing music for the sake of writing music, you don't care who your audience is because you're fullfilled simply expressing your feelings, thoughts, and ideas. When you produce music for distribution (to sell it), you have to think about a few things, the first being...
Who is your audience? In the dance music world, it's easy to lead yourself a stray and think that your audience is hopefully a huge crowd of screaming club goers or ravers, but you're mistaken. Your audience is the DJ. The DJ is the one that plays the music. If you've got the DJ's attention, he will make sure the crowd hears your song. That being said, in order to get the DJ's attention you need to accomplish a few things...
01. Does your music fit into the DJ's prefered genre?
-Is the percussion correct for the genre?
-Is the structure/programming correct for the genre?
-Are the sounds used inline with those the other songs in the genre the DJ plays?
-Is the over sound quality on par with the best of best tunes in the genre?
...if the DJ(s), while listening to you song at the store be it the old dusty vinyl shop or the digital distributors, doesn't think your song fits into his or her sound, it's going to be skipped over.
Remember the DJ is coming out of one song to mix into yours, and when yours is done, he's going to mix out of it into another tune. This fact means that your production has to fit the songs that the DJ is going to be mixing with it.
The better you understand the genre you want to put your music in, and the better you understand what the DJ is going to do with your song, the better your chances of being purchased are. Secondly the better you understand those things the chances of your song being played at the end of the set increase. I say this because a good DJ saved the best tracks for last. In my experience (15 years behind the decks, 10 producing dance music of ALL kinds), the crowd, in general, only remember four things about a live set.
01. The beginning of the set; did the DJ come out swinging, or did he lay an egg for the first couple of tracks?
02. The end; did the DJ end on a big note, or did he flounder at the finish?
03. Any mistakes; did the DJ train wreck, lift the wrong needle while changing tracks (eject the wrong CDJ), etc
04. Was the DJ personally boring behind the deck?
Since you, the artist of the music don't have control over 03. and 04. all you can do is write the music that is going to make the DJ sound good, that's why the DJ is going to buy it.
So, now, I beg to differ, there are lots of rules to follow when producing dance music.
Using trance percussion when you're writing a house tune is going to make the purchaser (the DJ) of the music say something along the lines of "wow, that'd be a good song if the drums weren't so far out there". likewise, using some of the simple percussion in today's electro house in a trance track is going to leave the trance song sounding extremely empty. Going back to trance, using a huge trance lead in a breakbeat, house, or drum and bass tune is going to sound pretty hokey. The DJ's playing those styles do so because of the over all sound in the genre. Straying to far from that sound is going to put your music on the shelf indefinately.
I tell all of my students, and clients, you can't change the industry or the accepted sound from the bottom rung of the ladder, so learn the rules, play by the rules, and climb the ladder. Once you're on the top, change the rules.
I beg to differ, but before I do I'll say this.
There's only two reasons to make music.
01. You can make music for the sake of making music, at which point there are no rules.
02. You make music for the sake of distribution, at which point there are more rules than I care to get into.
Like any part of the music industry if you are writing music for the sake of writing music, you don't care who your audience is because you're fullfilled simply expressing your feelings, thoughts, and ideas. When you produce music for distribution (to sell it), you have to think about a few things, the first being...
Who is your audience? In the dance music world, it's easy to lead yourself a stray and think that your audience is hopefully a huge crowd of screaming club goers or ravers, but you're mistaken. Your audience is the DJ. The DJ is the one that plays the music. If you've got the DJ's attention, he will make sure the crowd hears your song. That being said, in order to get the DJ's attention you need to accomplish a few things...
01. Does your music fit into the DJ's prefered genre?
-Is the percussion correct for the genre?
-Is the structure/programming correct for the genre?
-Are the sounds used inline with those the other songs in the genre the DJ plays?
-Is the over sound quality on par with the best of best tunes in the genre?
...if the DJ(s), while listening to you song at the store be it the old dusty vinyl shop or the digital distributors, doesn't think your song fits into his or her sound, it's going to be skipped over.
Remember the DJ is coming out of one song to mix into yours, and when yours is done, he's going to mix out of it into another tune. This fact means that your production has to fit the songs that the DJ is going to be mixing with it.
The better you understand the genre you want to put your music in, and the better you understand what the DJ is going to do with your song, the better your chances of being purchased are. Secondly the better you understand those things the chances of your song being played at the end of the set increase. I say this because a good DJ saved the best tracks for last. In my experience (15 years behind the decks, 10 producing dance music of ALL kinds), the crowd, in general, only remember four things about a live set.
01. The beginning of the set; did the DJ come out swinging, or did he lay an egg for the first couple of tracks?
02. The end; did the DJ end on a big note, or did he flounder at the finish?
03. Any mistakes; did the DJ train wreck, lift the wrong needle while changing tracks (eject the wrong CDJ), etc
04. Was the DJ personally boring behind the deck?
Since you, the artist of the music don't have control over 03. and 04. all you can do is write the music that is going to make the DJ sound good, that's why the DJ is going to buy it.
So, now, I beg to differ, there are lots of rules to follow when producing dance music.
Using trance percussion when you're writing a house tune is going to make the purchaser (the DJ) of the music say something along the lines of "wow, that'd be a good song if the drums weren't so far out there". likewise, using some of the simple percussion in today's electro house in a trance track is going to leave the trance song sounding extremely empty. Going back to trance, using a huge trance lead in a breakbeat, house, or drum and bass tune is going to sound pretty hokey. The DJ's playing those styles do so because of the over all sound in the genre. Straying to far from that sound is going to put your music on the shelf indefinately.
I tell all of my students, and clients, you can't change the industry or the accepted sound from the bottom rung of the ladder, so learn the rules, play by the rules, and climb the ladder. Once you're on the top, change the rules.
"Perfect yourself in Solitude, prove yourself in public." www.velcrocityrecords.com
Re: Recording / Writing Dance Music.
However..........
If you write something that is widely regarded as a cracking tune, it will no doubt get re-mixed into a multitude of dance sub-genres anyway.
Obviously, if you're aiming to be played by a specific DJ, sure, stick to the rules. Otherwise, break them - with a sledgehammer!
If you write something that is widely regarded as a cracking tune, it will no doubt get re-mixed into a multitude of dance sub-genres anyway.
Obviously, if you're aiming to be played by a specific DJ, sure, stick to the rules. Otherwise, break them - with a sledgehammer!
Re: Recording / Writing Dance Music.
Stoney wrote:However..........
If you write something that is widely regarded as a cracking tune, it will no doubt get re-mixed into a multitude of dance sub-genres anyway.
Obviously, if you're aiming to be played by a specific DJ, sure, stick to the rules. Otherwise, break them - with a sledgehammer!
Totaly agree...
I'll add another reason to stick to guidlines is that most "new" dj's out there are complete morons who only stick to playing the same tired 4/4 all night long and do a whole set usualy at the same tempo with no shift in style, most clubbers don't care cos they are so high any way hence how they can take listening to the latest richie hawtin minimal record where there is a chord every hour over a lame skippy beat...luckly some of the new breed coming through are pretty good.
The best play without boundries...Danny Teneglia when he plays a long set will play you everything from disco to techno, David Mancuso, DJ Harvey etc
If you want to blend in with every one then fine follow just like the rest and blend in wit the rest..
If you want to do this for the money imo you are in it for the wrong reasons which is why the scene sucks so much right now
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- vinyl_junkie
Frequent Poster - Posts: 1579 Joined: Tue Jun 24, 2003 12:00 am Location: Kent, UK