Hugh Robjohns wrote:How many chocolate producers...
How true, Cadburys bought out by Kraft, school day memories of the sweet odour of molten chocolate wafting over Bourneville Grammar Technical School will never be the same again.
But you're right, I believe with the state of the professional industry as you describe, top end R & D will be compromised, so maybe we all need to be open to paying a little extra and to support brands that are developing forwards.
Do you think that with our current technology in this field (microphony..if such a word exists) that almost all users are not getting value for money from the research and development. Amateur experimentation with existing stuff is probably producing better improvement for your buck than this high end evolutionary research.I dont think your average consumer is happy paying for a mic that either might not see light of day or will cost an outrageous amount for a long time.This may mean ultimately that high end mic companies will go under. Dave
Bob Bickerton wrote:... so maybe we all need to be open to paying a little extra and to support brands that are developing forwards.
Well that's the thrust of my argument, and the way I personally approach it. It's not something that is always possible or practical, but at least it's a thought that should be running around in the back of the mind.
Technical Editor, Sound On Sound...
(But generally posting my own personal views and not necessarily those of SOS, the company or the magazine!)
In my world, things get less strange when I read the manual...
turbodave wrote:Amateur experimentation with existing stuff is probably producing better improvement for your buck than this high end evolutionary research.
How do you figure that? Amatuer experimentation is, by definition, not R&D but messing about empirically to make something sound different.
I dont think your average consumer is happy paying for a mic that either might not see light of day or will cost an outrageous amount for a long time.
You might be right, but as I have argued I think this is a very short sighted point of view.
The reason we currently have so many affordable high quality mics is because professional users in past decades bought costly mics from companies that reinvested much of their profits into R&D. The fruits of their work are now openly available and lots of companies are assembling the bits to make cheap mics.
This may mean ultimately that high end mic companies will go under.
Precisely my fear... at which point the industry stops progressing.
Technical Editor, Sound On Sound...
(But generally posting my own personal views and not necessarily those of SOS, the company or the magazine!)
In my world, things get less strange when I read the manual...
I get your points Hugh and agree to an extent and the aspect of the amateur twiddling is to emphasise that while people can create great music/recordings with the current crop of mics , they are more likely to cheaply fiddle with the stuff out there than support what may be worthy but ultimately expensive research and development.Dave......anyway, how many great mics could have been developed for the cost of one Hadron Collider?
The cynic in me says that there's a line of corporate reasoning (ahem) about R&D which is intended to keep on producing something new, so we chuck away our old products and buy the latest thing. My wife is still happily using a nine year old mobile phone. She might be a rarity...
Someone did some research once amongst large quoted companies and found there was no material difference as regards shareholder returns between those that spent heavily on R&D and those that did not (but may have made me-too lookalike products, or bought in ideas e.g. from external design houses).
Is there any detergent out there which is not new or improved or washes whiter?
Steve Hill wrote:The cynic in me says that there's a line of corporate reasoning (ahem) about R&D which is intended to keep on producing something new, so we chuck away our old products and buy the latest thing. My wife is still happily using a nine year old mobile phone. She might be a rarity...
She's not that rare -- my mobile phone is an antique too. I keep it because it still does what I want it to do -- make and receive phone calls and texts.
But I can see that the latest breed of phones bring many new benefits and more integrated ways of working which would be beneficial, and I dare say when I decide to change the phone I will actively seek out something like an iPhone or htc because of the added benefits and features.
Someone did some research once amongst large quoted companies and found there was no material difference as regards shareholder returns between those that spent heavily on R&D and those that did not (but may have made me-too lookalike products, or bought in ideas e.g. from external design houses).
I'm not that surprised -- but I'm also not interested in share holder returns. I'm interested in supporting companies that choose to invest in the R&D of potentially worthwhile future technologies because that is more beneficial to the industry as a whole.
Is there any detergent out there which is not new or improved or washes whiter?
Good question. Although there have been significant advances over the years relative to ye olde traditional soap suds -- such as the introduction of enzymes and ways of achieving good results at low water temperatures.
Technical Editor, Sound On Sound...
(But generally posting my own personal views and not necessarily those of SOS, the company or the magazine!)
In my world, things get less strange when I read the manual...
Steve Hill wrote:My wife is still happily using a nine year old mobile phone. She might be a rarity...
She's not that rare -- my mobile phone is an antique too. I keep it because it still does what I want it to do -- make and receive phone calls and texts.
Wow! So there are two mobile phones which batteries have lasted more than 366 days!
turbodave wrote:I get your points Hugh and agree to an extent and the aspect of the amateur twiddling is to emphasise that while people can create great music/recordings with the current crop of mics , they are more likely to cheaply fiddle with the stuff out there than support what may be worthy but ultimately expensive research and development.Dave......anyway, how many great mics could have been developed for the cost of one Hadron Collider?
Bob Bickerton wrote:... so maybe we all need to be open to paying a little extra and to support brands that are developing forwards.
Well that's the thrust of my argument, and the way I personally approach it. It's not something that is always possible or practical, but at least it's a thought that should be running around in the back of the mind.
Hugh
In a sense you could view it like insurance or VAT (GST down here). We all pay such things, but do not always see an immediate or obvious benefit. Which would people feel more positive about; lining insurance company and government coffers, or contributing to technical development?
Technical Editor, Sound On Sound...
(But generally posting my own personal views and not necessarily those of SOS, the company or the magazine!)
In my world, things get less strange when I read the manual...
we seem to have wondered slightly off topic. this thread reads like a game of Mallets Mallet!! any more on-topic thoughts? best vocal mic under for under £500?
turbodave wrote:Sooorrryy!...The SE Z5600 has a good review and many polar patterns.Tasty and flexible! Mmmmmmm.Dave
I was given two of them by Se. I gave them back. Not very nice in my opinion. The only bad mic' that Se have made - apparently the 2nd version is much better - but the first ones were truly dreadful!! Harsh...... oh yes!!
BUT I do think the Gemini and the Icis are very good value.
Excellent & informative thread - started off with a useful and practical question and broadened into a fine discussion about the merits or otherwise of modern corporate R&D. If only more forums were like this!
To Hugh: thoroughly agree with your views, including the 'we all end up eating at MacDonalds if no-one pays for the decent chefs' analogy. And the additional point that we can't foresee what improvements R&D may bring because they may embody things we haven't even dreamt of yet is easily borne out by the histories of such diverse things as medecine, electricity and cinema.
All that being said, in answer to the original question: there are certainly other options in that prices range and I would recommend taking a - globally - wide look around, but as I work for a company with a vested interest I'll let you do your own research!
Chas Levin, Source Distribution wrote:Excellent & informative thread - started off with a useful and practical question and broadened into a fine discussion about the merits or otherwise of modern corporate R&D. If only more forums were like this!
To Hugh: thoroughly agree with your views, including the 'we all end up eating at MacDonalds if no-one pays for the decent chefs' analogy. And the additional point that we can't foresee what improvements R&D may bring because they may embody things we haven't even dreamt of yet is easily borne out by the histories of such diverse things as medecine, electricity and cinema.
All that being said, in answer to the original question: there are certainly other options in that prices range and I would recommend taking a - globally - wide look around, but as I work for a company with a vested interest I'll let you do your own research!
Best wishes, Chas Levin
I dont quite go with the chefs analogy cos musically we can create interesting, but maybe not technically perfect recordings with cheap mics..its the creativity not the expense.....ish.Dave
Chas Levin, Source Distribution wrote:Excellent & informative thread - started off with a useful and practical question and broadened into a fine discussion about the merits or otherwise of modern corporate R&D. If only more forums were like this!
To Hugh: thoroughly agree with your views, including the 'we all end up eating at MacDonalds if no-one pays for the decent chefs' analogy. And the additional point that we can't foresee what improvements R&D may bring because they may embody things we haven't even dreamt of yet is easily borne out by the histories of such diverse things as medecine, electricity and cinema.
All that being said, in answer to the original question: there are certainly other options in that prices range and I would recommend taking a - globally - wide look around, but as I work for a company with a vested interest I'll let you do your own research!
Best wishes, Chas Levin
I dont quite go with the chefs analogy cos musically we can create interesting, but maybe not technically perfect recordings with cheap mics..its the creativity not the expense.....ish.Dave
Plus I dont think we were entirely throwing away R&D - more the "rip off" sector.
