Warning: Wavelab 7 Elements needs a dongle

[SecretSam]

This is a more gently worded version of a post that has disappeared. The original fruity wording probably fell foul of several Forum rules: apologies Mr Moderator.

For future Forum searchers: If you are thinking of buying Wavelab 7 Elements, you need to know that it requires an eLicenser USB dongle or (as far as I can ascertain from the ambigous wording on the website and documentation) a current live internet connection every time you run it.

I am contributing this information because its is very far from obvious when you buy the application.

The eLicenser is mentioned in the small print for the full version of Wavelab, which may be defensible (by someone who doesn't understand the limitations of software protection) for an expensive app aimed at high-end studios. The cheaper versions of Wavelab have historically not used dongles (neither did the full version until recently), so the vendor could not reasonably expect you to know that the app is encumbered in this way.

This matters for a number of reasons:

1. If you intend to use it on a laptop, you may (like me) resent having your i/o capacity diminished by an oft-cracked software protection scheme that is of no real use to either you or Steinberg. You could of course carry a USB hub around, which is inconvenient.

2. The price of the dongle (and probably the USB hub) adds a meaningful hidden cost to what is otherwise a sub-US$100 application.

3. If you want to use the app on a laptop and a desktop, you will have to swap the dongle around between the machines (or maybe buy two ... dunno if the software allows that until I do some more non-value-adding research). Another inconvenience.

4. You need to download, learn and maintain the eLicenser Centre software as well as the app itself.

If Steinberg really feel they have to use dongles (and a quick internet trawl will show how completely ineffective they are at stopping piracy), then they should clearly warn buyers before purchase because they significantly diminish the ergonomics and economics of the application.

My original post was much less patient than this, partly because I was faced with another two hours of messing around with dongles and software, having been trying since Thursday of last week to get an uncorrupted copy of the app downloaded.

Well, now you know.

[C-Bro]

Funny, I have Wavelab Elements and don't need a USB dongle!

For my Wavelab Elements I use a software eLicenser.

You can double check here:

http://www.steinberg.net/en/support/productactivation.html

[SecretSam]

... just looked at their site again.

In fact the site specifically says you don't need a dongle: "The USB-eLicenser is included in all retail versions of Wavelab 7. It is not required to run Wavelab Elements 7."

Until they get busy with their content management system (after which you will have to ask me for the screen grab I just took), you can see this at:

Steinberg site - Wavelab Specs & Downloads page

Either the site is misworded, or the installer is poorly written. And guess what ? No online tech support available for buyers in my country.

Either way: caveat emptor

This is my first Steinberg purchase since Cubase SL2. Now I remember why.

[SecretSam]

Thanks C-Bro

I read that page, and a couple of links from it.

Having downloaded and installed the latest version of eLicenser and entered the activation code (how much trouble do they want to put me to ?), I get an exclamation mark followed by:

"Currently, there is no eLicenser connected to your computer which you can download your license to. Please connect an appropriate USB-eLicenser to your computer. In case you do not have any USB-eLicensers available and want to download the license to a so-called "Soft-eLicenser", please contact the software vendor of your product, to learn how to create a Soft-eLicenser on your computer system."

The genius of this is, of course, that I can't contact my software vendor except by post, because they don't do online support for my country. Under Forum rules, I am not allowed to write what I think of Steinberg, but the root of the word sounds like part of 'country.'

This is a bit like selling someone a car, then throwing the keys in a lake and telling them to go fetch.

Of course, if you know of a way around this, I'd be very glad to hear it !

[SecretSam]

Right.

You don't need a dongle. Unless you want to alternate the use of the software between laptop and desktop, in which case you do, or so it seems. The actual manual is OK, but it doesn't cover dongle stuff, and the documentation around that is very poor indeed.

If you install the app, it installs the soft eLicenser, although this is not very apparent from the introductory docs. Then there is a fandango to dance with the website involving licenser codes, activation codes, personal data, blah blah blah blah blah. And you can't drag-and-drop licences between USB and soft eLicenser, whatever it says in the help files.

I can't be bothered with this. Why can't these bloody people have a look at how Ableton do it ?

Anyone know when Adobe Audition for Mac is due to finish debugging ?

[SecretSam]

... so now I have figured out how to get the license onto a soft Licenser, which would restrict it to my laptop only, but eliminate the dreaded dongle. I can live with this, because my PC has an old copy of Wavelab 4 on it.

So all I have to do is re-authorise the software for the soft licenser, right ? And delete the licence from the dongle ?

But no:

"The version of WaveLab Elements 7 which has been activated with this Activation Code was moved to a USB-eLicenser/Steinberg Key. This means that reactivating the product is not possible."

If anyone on the Forum lives near Steinberg HQ, would you please do me a favour and post a dog turd through their letterbox ? Say it's with my compliments.

Thanks and regards
Sam

[SecretSam]

Note to future users:

This is where I went wrong:

The install process puts an app called something like 'WaveLab Start Centre" on the desktop. When you open that, it gives you a number of options. The one called 'install Wavelab' looks like the title of the page. It isn't.

If you do the careful thing and go to the other options first - you know, the 'read-me' and the 'about' files, you will get led up a garden path about licensers. If you ignore them and go straight to the top 'Install WaveLab' option immediately, it will install the soft eLicenser for you while it installs WaveLab, and the rest of the sorry tale will not unwind. Or may not. We are talking about Steinberg here, after all.

A standard install wizard would have been much more obvious to use. Writing the 'Start Centre' was a waste of the developer's and my time (and the same goes for you, Native Instruments).

Oh Ableton we love you
You don't stuff us about
Your software works
Your techs reply
And dongles get left out

This is Secret Sam signing off and going for a large, strong drink.

[chris...]

The "soft" version (no-dongle) would scare me as I assume if your hard drive fails or is reformatted etc, then you have to buy the software again. But I could be wrong.

FWIW my studio computer has several dongles in a USB hub. And I've taken to mostly using non-dongle software on the laptop. Much of which does challenge/response type authorisation, which can be repeated on a new computer or drive, as needed.

(unlike the soft elicenser - tho' as I said, I could be wrong)

[Steve A]

I really don't understand why people get into such a tizz about software protection. It's been around as long as software itself. It isn't going away. And while I genuinely have sympathy with anyone for whom the process is not working as it should, in the vast majority of cases copy protection involves nothing more than a few minutes inconvenience at the install stage and that's all, regardless of whether it's a software or hardware dongle, NI authorisation suite or whatever.

I would imagine the software e-licenser came about precisely because people were complaining to Steinberg about having to buy an additional physical item to run downloaded software. And yet here they are now taking stick for it. It seems some people are determined to bash Steinberg whatever they do!

[crofter]

The "soft" version (no-dongle) would scare me as I assume if your hard drive fails or is reformatted etc, then you have to buy the software again. But I could be wrong.

FWIW my studio computer has several dongles in a USB hub. And I've taken to mostly using non-dongle software on the laptop. Much of which does challenge/response type authorisation, which can be repeated on a new computer or drive, as needed.

(unlike the soft elicenser - tho' as I said, I could be wrong)

you can just get a new activation code from "My Steinberg" after you have registered it.

[chris...]

ah right - ta

[SecretSam]

Hi Steve

I am an inveterate Steinberg basher, mostly because of the many irreplaceable hours of my life that have been wasted in trying to make their bloated and poorly-documented applications work.

Wavelab used to be a shining exception to the rule, and probably is pretty good now that it is installed and working. It's just a shame that they have added a level of complication to the authorisation procedure.

But to take your more general points about software authorisation:

1. Some software houses genuinely do have reliable, simple, well-explained processes that take two or three minutes to execute and never give me a minute's trouble (Ableton, Sonalksys, PSP ...). Some don't: NI are the main culprits in my experience, with Steinberg in second place.

2. The irony of the whole time-wasting exercise is that it doesn't actually do much. There are plenty of cracked AppZ, even of software allegedly protected by eLicensers. The only users who get inconvenienced by authorisation are people who are kind enough to pay for their software.

An appropriate level of protection is that which is sufficient to stop the average user giving ten copies away to his mates. However, the industry as a whole needs to accept that there is nothing they can write that the Ozone or H2O boys cannot crack and distribute on an industrial scale. The rational response to piracy is to make legitimate software easier to install than cracks, and to make support excellent and easy to access. Making legitimate users jump through hoops means that cracks are easier to install as well as infinitely cheaper. This is just plain dumb.

[As usual when venting in this manner, I should add that I run a software company in real life, and do not advocate the use of cracks.]

Luckily, Wavelab on PC was already adequate for me three versions ago. Now it is on my Mac, I will have to buy a second copy so that I can get it soft-licensed, but after that I can probably avoid changing it for a few years and forget about all this bollocks.

[Steve A]

I have to say, I've used Steinberg and NI software for years, dealt with all of the copy protection methods that have come my way during that time (albeit with the admitted exception of the software e-licenser) and the scenario you describe bears no resemblance at all to my own experience.

If, in the interests of preventing or at least delaying cracked versions (and there is definitely evidence of the latter), software requires me to perform a number of steps that take no more than a few minutes to get it working then I have no problem with that. To what degree it is actually succesful makes no difference - I respect their right to try.

[C-Bro]

Sorry to hear of your troubles, Sam, and happy that you finally got it resolved.

I am neither basher nor promoter as Wavelab Elements is the only Steinberg product I own.

[marsnic]

If, in the interests of preventing or at least delaying cracked versions (and there is definitely evidence of the latter), software requires me to perform a number of steps that take no more than a few minutes to get it working then I have no problem with that. To what degree it is actually succesful makes no difference - I respect their right to try.

Respect is however a two way process. While I too respect their right to try, I would expect an equal respect when experiencing issues with THEIR protection. I have been sat on a copy of Cubase 6 for nigh on 3 weeks now which is rendered useless due to an eLicencer problem. Steinberg Support (oxymoron) refuse to help other than to point to FAQs on the website which contain links to apparent solutions that I do not have the required access to view. I am unable to find out as a registered user for nigh on 30 years what I need to do upgrade my access rights to see anything useful.

I am at the point here where I have absolutely no idea how I am going to resolve this. They are not in the slightest bit interested. Respect???????

[Tui]

Steinberg + Waves = Software S&M.

[SecretSam]

Nicely put, Marsnic

... and a sadly familiar scenario when attempting to get support from Steinberg.

[SecretSam]

I do feel better for being able to rant about my problems on the Forum. It gives me a nice warm feeling that I may in some small way help to put off a couple of customers and reduce the income of companies who don't treat me well.

Thanks for your patience, folks. You are very special to me

[The Elf]

I can live with dongles, though I don't like them.

What really gets my blood boiling is when you have to have a dongle FOR A DEMO!!!!
Arrgh!

Good grief! Can't I just try the thing first before I have to shell out?!?!

Steven Slate, please stand up!

[onesecondglance]

I have to say, I've used Steinberg and NI software for years, dealt with all of the copy protection methods that have come my way during that time (albeit with the admitted exception of the software e-licenser) and the scenario you describe bears no resemblance at all to my own experience.

If, in the interests of preventing or at least delaying cracked versions (and there is definitely evidence of the latter), software requires me to perform a number of steps that take no more than a few minutes to get it working then I have no problem with that. To what degree it is actually succesful makes no difference - I respect their right to try.

same here Steve. i guess people just enjoy complaining.

[marsnic]

i guess people just enjoy complaining.

Thanks for pointing this out. If I hadn't been tearing my hair out for 3 weeks I would have missed out on this enjoyment. I guess there are upsides to everything. Thanks Steinberg.

[Zukan]

I can live with dongles, though I don't like them.

What really gets my blood boiling is when you have to have a dongle FOR A DEMO!!!!
Arrgh!

Good grief! Can't I just try the thing first before I have to shell out?!?!

Steven Slate, please stand up!

A bit like buying a condom just to kiss the girl heh Elf?

[marsnic]

I can live with dongles, though I don't like them.

What really gets my blood boiling is when you have to have a dongle FOR A DEMO!!!!
Arrgh!

Good grief! Can't I just try the thing first before I have to shell out?!?!

Steven Slate, please stand up!

A bit like buying a condom just to kiss the girl heh Elf?

I think that is the best analogy I've heard

[The Elf]

Zukan knows me too well, I see!

[SecretSam]

It's reasonable to take condoms on a first date.

Latex gloves might be anticipating a bit too much, though.