Lexicon PCM70 still worth getting?

[zenguitar]

This has been skirted around but not mentioned explicitly yet. When you are driving your outboard reverb from a Send bus your hardware reverb has to be set to 100% wet. If not you will get some of the original dry sound added with the latency delay and will get flamming etc.

So, double check your wet/dry mix on the reverb unit.

Andy

[timoc]

This has been skirted around but not mentioned explicitly yet. When you are driving your outboard reverb from a Send bus your hardware reverb has to be set to 100% wet. If not you will get some of the original dry sound added with the latency delay and will get flamming etc.

So, double check your wet/dry mix on the reverb unit.

Andy

Hi Andy,

The samples above are an fx loop back to my DAW, not a hardware reverb. The vst is set to 100% wet.

[timoc]

If going for something newer, had you considered the new Eventide Space. It's in pedal format but has line I/O and sounds great.

I think I might go for this in fact. Thanks for the tip.

[Tui]

Just remember, everything Eventide makes is geared towards guitars and guitarists (I own an Eclipse). Eventides have a distinct sound (like their choruses, for example) which may not sit well with all sound sources. Also, build quality and reliability can be problematic.

For regular reverb, I'd probably go for the PCM70.

[Mixedup]

Just remember, everything Eventide makes is geared towards guitars and guitarists (I own an Eclipse). Eventides have a distinct sound (like their choruses, for example) which may not sit well with all sound sources. Also, build quality and reliability can be problematic.

For regular reverb, I'd probably go for the PCM70.

Interesting... I own a Time Factor, and have used most of the other 'factor' series, and the build quality has seemed really good to me on all. Very rugged and solid. No noise problems. Had an Eclipse on loan a couple of months ago and that didn't seem bad either. Was it hardware or software issues you've had?

As for the sound being distinct and geared towards guitarists... ??? It's just a reverb we're talking about here, and there are plenty of options. Or is it the presets you don't like?

Not that there's anything wrong with a PCM70; it's versatile; the presets are pretty good; they're very editable. But those boxes have their own character just as much as the Eventides or Yamahas. If you want clean and characterless, just go for convolution. Or if you want natural, just go for room mics...

[timoc]

Just remember, everything Eventide makes is geared towards guitars and guitarists (I own an Eclipse). Eventides have a distinct sound (like their choruses, for example) which may not sit well with all sound sources. Also, build quality and reliability can be problematic.

For regular reverb, I'd probably go for the PCM70.

It seems to me that Eventide have taken some of the reverbs out of their more expensive rack units and put them in a stompbox. I am a guitarist so the pedal would serve two purposes for me. Having listened to some of the clips online (mostly with keyboardists) it seems to me the hall, room and plate presets are not specific to guitar playing.

The advantage of the getting the space pedal is that it is new, whereas the pcm70 is likely to be quite old and may require repairs sooner rather than later.

Has anyone used the Eventide Space as a send effect unit for regular mixes on various instruments? I may post this question as a new post.

[Tui]

Had an Eclipse on loan a couple of months ago and that didn't seem bad either. Was it hardware or software issues you've had?

Several issues. When I got the Eclipse, it wouldn't lock onto external digital signals. No sync. I got in touch with the vendor, who contacted Eventide, who told me that they'd forgotten to install a tiny jumper on the main board. They sent me the jumper, and I installed it myself. Since then, it locks onto 44.1 and 48k just find, but not higher rates. The AES input doesn't work at all.

Locking onto midi clock has been problematic, too, due to constantly fluctuating synchronisation as evidenced by readouts on the Eclipse. This resulted in audible clicks. Eventide has improved upon this issue in recent software updates, and syncing now seems to work properly, however it took them about 8 years to get it right.

The alpha dial is shot already, even though I never used it much. Thankfully, one can alternatively use the keypad.

A friend of my recently ordered an Eventide stomp box but had to send it back straight away because of some fault or other (can't remember what exactly).

Don't get me wrong, I love my Eclipse. It would be my desert island FX box, since it does many things very well, and some things, like pitch-shifting, exceptionally well. However, there's also a certain glassiness about the sound that would prevent me from using it on all audio material. For straight up reverb, I'd rather choose one of the recent software offerings, or indeed an old Lexicon or current TC.

[timoc]

However, there's also a certain glassiness about the sound that would prevent me from using it on all audio material. For straight up reverb, I'd rather choose one of the recent software offerings, or indeed an old Lexicon or current TC.

Would the TC Electronics M-one XL be comparable quality for the budget I'm in? I could get that new. I'm just a bit wary about getting old gear.

[Tui]

Would the TC Electronics M-one XL be comparable quality for the budget I'm in? I could get that new. I'm just a bit wary about getting old gear.

I've never used a M-one XL, so I can't say. It appears to be more of a budget unit, as opposed to the PCM70. I also own a M3000, and that's a very good reverb, too, (and even better chorus. The best, IMO). They go for about $700 S/H on eBay.

However, can I tell you that in spite of having available pretty decent hardware units, I've now delegated most reverb duties to EW's Spaces and Softube's Tsar, since it just sounds better. So, really, unless you want to take your reverb to live shows, I suggest taking a good look at software options.

[James Perrett]

When I first tested the setup described above (fx loop from mixer with vst plugin), but put the reverb at 100% dry, then you hear a flam. This means that there is a time difference between when my dry signal arrives in the mixer and when the effects loop send arrives in the same mixer.

Not sure if anyone has replied to this point already but I'd say that this isn't an issue with reverb unless you are trying to simulate extremely small rooms. I'll often put 10-20ms pre delay on a reverb anyway.

James.

[Frank Eleveld]

Software reverbs have come a really long way, so if you want quality for a modest price, that's where I'd look first. That said, as far as reverbs go, I still prefer to use hardware.

I have a PCM70 here and it's capable of producing effects I'd describe as 'lush'. It's a great machine but I'd hesitate to get one now because it's showing its age (capable of producing just one effect at a time, many units now need service because of their age). A used TC M2000 or M3000 would be a better option, IMO, or alternatively, a Lexicon MPX-1. That is, the dreadful user interface aside, also a machine capable of producing very good effects.

Cheers,
Frank

[Tui]

From what I've read, Lexicon doesn't service old machines. Once they're broken - that's it.

[DePulse]

From what I've read, Lexicon doesn't service old machines. Once they're broken - that's it.

Doesn't that apply to all manufacturers? Try to get Roland to fix a broken Juno106....

[Tui]

I guess I was trying to make the point that a broken Lexicon might well turn out to be unfixable, due to proprietary components. For a lot of older digital gear, you just don't get the parts anymore.

[James Perrett]

Doesn't that apply to all manufacturers? Try to get Roland to fix a broken Juno106....

No - there are still a few manufacturers who will service 30 year old gear. Quad is one example.

James.

[The Korff]

Klark Teknik are another (specifically, they said they could look at my ailing DN780 reverb). And there are people who know their way around vintage Lexicons too, though some of the parts are indeed no longer available.

Cheers!

Chris

[Peter Conz Connelly]

If you want to try some Lexicon reverb for a decent price, you could do worse than the MPX-1. They were about £1200 new I think, but can be had for £200 these days. They use once Lexichip for reverb, and a generic processor for other effects. Programming them is OK, not too much of a trauma, and they sound good.

I had one for years, LOVE its sound and kinda regret selling it... but it is so much simpler using plug-in reverbs and there are plenty out there but, as the OP states, they don't want a plugin so would quite happily say try the MPX1 first. The PCM70 is lush but the MPX1 is way more versatile. It has some older PCM algorithms, IIRC.

P

[timoc]

Just getting back to the outboard reverb thing...

Don't overlook Yamaha Rev5 or Rev7. Elf thinks they're a bit noisy, but I think they sound great!

Hi Mixedup,

Today I just walked into a music store on a whim and found amonst a handful of 19" effects the Yamaha rev7. I was able to take it home for 125 euro, which I think for European standards is a very good price (for US prices it's just below average I think). Thanks again for the tip! Because the price was so good, I'm probably able to afford a second (different unit)which is fun.

[Frank Eleveld]

From what I've read, Lexicon doesn't service old machines. Once they're broken - that's it.

True. I was merely referring to obtaining spare parts. Some Lexicons - particularly the LXP-models - use bespoke parts (the rotary switches are notorious). Once these go, the devices are basically useless.

[Guy Johnson]

Can I butt in here and make the point that 'budget' does not mean bad? How ironic it is, that nowadays a Midiverb II is considered a worthwhile rarity with a unique sound! BAck in the day it was just a good-for-the-price box.

Coming across all sorts of reverbs when engineering live, on decent sound systems, I can honestly say there are quite a few decent budget reverbs around. And some well-goregeous lush-tastic ones of course ... but the times when wanting that are quite rare.

The other year, I got a reverb that is budget, and aimed at guitarists... and ... it's pretty good. Twin engine (effects and reverbs) easily adjusted, tap delay, nice. The name? A lowly TC G sharp, now discontinued, but the studio version, the M350 is available, and not 'suffering' from guitar voicing.

Think of the mike(s) you could get, or room treatment, or a better daw ... with better reverbs and fx bundled in, for the price of a Really Good Reverb!

Just sayin'..

G

[twotoedsloth]

I have a Lexicon PCM 90 with a dodgy analog input pot. Is it possible or worthwhile to get this repaired? At the moment I'm using the AES input (and output), and it's working fine, though I wish it was 24 bit instead of 16 bit.

[Tui]

The PCM 90 converters are 18 bit.

http://www.peabody.jhu.edu/data/46/link/718/PCM90_User_Guide_Rev1.pdf

[twotoedsloth]

Well... since we're not converting analog to digital, or digital to analog, it's irrelevant that the converters are 18bit, my audio interface sees the AES signal as 16 bit.

Anyways, do you think it's possible to repair the analog input pot, or should I just be happy with it as a digital I/O only device?

[twotoedsloth]

Hmm...I just noticed that the PCM 90 actually has SPDIF ports, not AES, and I've been running the SPDIF I/O on the PCM 90 into the AES I/O on my MOTU 896. Is it possible that I'd hear a difference if I had it running SPDIF to SPDIF instead of SPDIF to AES?

[timoc]

If you want to try some Lexicon reverb for a decent price, you could do worse than the MPX-1. They were about £1200 new I think, but can be had for £200 these days. They use once Lexichip for reverb, and a generic processor for other effects. Programming them is OK, not too much of a trauma, and they sound good.

I had one for years, LOVE its sound and kinda regret selling it... but it is so much simpler using plug-in reverbs and there are plenty out there but, as the OP states, they don't want a plugin so would quite happily say try the MPX1 first. The PCM70 is lush but the MPX1 is way more versatile. It has some older PCM algorithms, IIRC.

P

Thanks Nathanscribe and Peter. I was able to pick one of these up on ebay this weekend for a good price. I'm done with my search!