Digital transfer of DAT tapes to computer

[shams]

Hi, I've got a pile of DAT tapes that I need to transfer before they become 100% obsolete and unsupported. I have a Sony PCM-R300 DAT player, and with my current set-up, one possibility is just playing the headphone output through the line-in on a digital recorder. However, I'd like to make it a digital transfer to preserve as much of the original recording as possible. The DAT player has digital coaxial and optical outputs. What would be the easiest way for me to transfer the recordings, to either a digital audio recorder or my computer (ideally my Mac)? Is a USB sound card the way to go?

Thanks in advance for any help!!

[chris...]

What Mac do you have ?

Most have a optical digital in, on a hybrid connector that also does analog line in.

[tacitus]

If you do end up going analogue, use the line out, not the headphone socket. But as Chris says, any recent Mac will have a digital input which use the same socket as the analogue line input. My iMac's about 5 years old and wasn't the first to have this, so if your Mac doesn't, it's probably time to upgrade it ...

If it turns out you don't have this facility on your Mac and you need to get an interface, look for something with SPDIF inputs on it - obviously it can be Co-ax or optical - so you are sure to go digital. I can't think any interface with this will be unable to give you what you want, but maybe somebody with wider knowledge might see a snag somewhere.

If you do have the combi socket on the Mac, with it being 3.5mm format, you need an SPDIF to 3.5mm optical lead - I got my latest from Amazon for a few quid. This is not any sort of digital to analogue conversion; the socket on the Mac works both as analogue (by the contacts touching the side of the plug you insert) or as digital, in which case the optical signal shines straight out of the end of the plug. Cunning, huh? Works like a charm.

And yes, you do want to get your stuff copied over. I understand there aren't enough working DAT mechanisms left in the world to play back all the existing DAT tapes even once. Hugh will know all about this (he knows everything, and this is exactly the sort of fact that proves it!). So some people are eventually going to find they have heaps of DAT tapes which may have something good on them but they'll never find out.

[ken long]

And yes, you do want to get your stuff copied over. I understand there aren't enough working DAT mechanisms left in the world to play back all the existing DAT tapes even once.

Still many, many DDS drives around so no need to perpetuate this myth!

[Exalted Wombat]

Hi, I've got a pile of DAT tapes that I need to transfer before they become 100% obsolete and unsupported. I have a Sony PCM-R300 DAT player, and with my current set-up, one possibility is just playing the headphone output through the line-in on a digital recorder. However, I'd like to make it a digital transfer to preserve as much of the original recording as possible. The DAT player has digital coaxial and optical outputs. What would be the easiest way for me to transfer the recordings, to either a digital audio recorder or my computer (ideally my Mac)? Is a USB sound card the way to go?

Thanks in advance for any help!!

Digital inputs are not uncommon on computers - after all, they're simpler to arrange than analogue ones, no a/d conversion required Are you sure you haven't got one already?

[chris...]

What Mac do you have ?

Most have a optical digital in, on a hybrid connector that also does analog line in.

Following up my earlier post - this is the connector needed to access the optical input on most Macs in recent years:

http://www.maplin.co.uk/toslink-to-mini-toslinkconverter-29296

[chris...]

Still many, many DDS drives around so no need to perpetuate this myth!

Good point.

However, what software does one use to make a DDS (computer backup) drive read an audio DAT ?

ISTR in the mid-1990s there was something that did this on an SGI.

But now ?

Ta

[ken long]

Still many, many DDS drives around so no need to perpetuate this myth!

Good point.

However, what software does one use to make a DDS (computer backup) drive read an audio DAT ?

ISTR in the mid-1990s there was something that did this on an SGI.

But now ?

Ta

VDAT works fine in XP. Including error logs.

Here you go some more info - last update 2010 so hardly mid 90s . http://www.zianet.com/jgray/dat/ and http://heemsker.home.xs4all.nl/fup/

[chris...]

Thanks - I may well end up needing that.

Cheers

[shams]

I had no idea MacBooks had optical in! That makes everything so much easier – thanks everyone for your help!

[shams]

So to follow up on this, I've run into a bit of a problem:
I have the optical cable now to connect the DAT player to the MacBook, but I can't get a signal. Same problem when I hook it up to the line in on my Sony PCM-D50 recorder, which also has optical in. After reading around, I'm starting to think the problem is that the tapes were recorded on long play and thus at a lower rate that's not supported by the MacBook or the recorder (both of which have floors of 44.1 kHz).
I'm trying to get non long play recorded DAT tapes to test this with, but in the meantime I guess my questions are first, does this make sense, and second, if the rate is the problem, is there any way to get around this? Is getting a digital signal possible on long play DATs?
Thanks again, everyone has been so helpful.

[MadManDan]

Interesting. So you have two machines at hand? Do the supposedly long play tapes play at all on the machines? I mean via analog out? I know you're looking to do a dig xfer, I'm just spitballing. Usually dat machines have displays that show the recorded rate.

[ef37a]

Don't know DAT at all but can't you do a few minutes recording at normal speed as a test?

And why would DAT not output standard S/PDIF (if I have understood this correctly)? Both my Philips digital audio cassette and my two Sony Minidiscs do. Talk to my 2496's or Fast track pro/KA6 just fine!

Dave.

[James Perrett]

Is it just your software that doesn't support 32kHz or the hardware itself? If it is the hardware, you will need to find an interface that supports 32kHz - not sure how common this feature is but I'm fairly sure that my RME card will do it.

James.

[ef37a]

Is it just your software that doesn't support 32kHz or the hardware itself? If it is the hardware, you will need to find an interface that supports 32kHz - not sure how common this feature is but I'm fairly sure that my RME card will do it.

James.

Aha! Well the venerable 2496 will run at 32k as will the Fast track pro I am pretty sure (says it supports SR's up to 96kHz).

If the software is the problem download the 30 day demo of Cubase LE6.

Dave.

[Hugh Robjohns]

I have the optical cable now to connect the DAT player to the MacBook, but I can't get a signal. Same problem when I hook it up to the line in on my Sony PCM-D50 recorder, which also has optical in. After reading around, I'm starting to think the problem is that the tapes were recorded on long play and thus at a lower rate that's not supported by the MacBook or the recorder (both of which have floors of 44.1 kHz).

The long-play mode on DAT machines uses a 32kHz sample rate with 12-bit non-linear encoding and a frequency response that extended to about 14.5kHz.

The issue may well be to do with the 32kHz sample rate being incompatible with your Mac, but I wonder also if the machine can output S/PDIF in this format at all because of the need to transcode between 12-bit non-linear and the 16 bit linear format required by everything else.

Edited to add: The other possibility is that the recording has been flagged as copyrighted and the SCMS system is preventing anything else from recording the data digitally.

Given the inherently limited quality of the source recordings in long-play mode, I would suggest that taking the analogue outputs (most DAT machines can replay long-play DATs even if they can't record them) and re-recording through a normal computer interface via the analogue domain might be the most pragmatic way forward.

hugh

[ef37a]

Again. I am DAT stupid but both the aforementioned Sony MD and Philips DAC used "mucked about" coding systems and yet both output a normal digital signal (one is co-ax and one optical but a five quid converter works fine)

The mindisc machine even has a mono, lp mode and although I have not tried it I can see no reson why that should not feed standard S/PDIF out? It is after all a SONY/PHILPS connection protocol!

But I agree Hugh. Little or nothing should be lost going from the analogue line outs. In anycase, for all we know they might just take the line out and S/PDIF it!

Dave.

[Hugh Robjohns]

...Sony MD and Philips DAC used "mucked about" coding systems and yet both output a normal digital signal ...

I think you mean Philips DCC, but yes, quote so. It is obviously possible to transcode between a non-linearly quantised or a data-reduced format to a linear one, and in the case of MD and DCC it was a pre-requisite of the system.

The long-play mode in the DAT format was an option (mode III) that not all machines supported, and some only supported replay but not record. To be honest, it's not a mode I ever used and so I have no first hand experience of whether typical machines would or could output S/PDIF for long-play tapes or not. I was just raising it as a possible issue that might warrant further investigation.

S/PDIF can certainly handle the 32kHz sample rate.

hugh

[chris...]

I wonder also if the machine can output S/PDIF in this format at all because of the need to transcode between 12-bit non-linear and the 16 bit linear format required by everything else.

Transferring a load of long-play DATs awaits me...

Assuming my computer interface and software can handle 32kHz sample rate, then *if* the DAT machine outputs anything at all on the S/PDIF port, *then* it should be 16 bit linear format, right ?

ie. so I hopefully won't have to worry about somehow converting from the 12-bit non-linear format myself, in the computer ?

[Hugh Robjohns]

Yes, if it sends data down the S/PDIF pipe, it will be formated as linearly quantised audio.

I've had a rummage around a few Sony DAT manuals and can't find anything to suggest that long play tapes won't output valid S/PDIF, so I presume it works as you would expect, with a 32kHz sample rate.

hugh

[Tomás Mulcahy]

The last time I had to do this (about 1998?) it was a Tascam DA20 mark 2 feeding S/Pdif to a Korg 1212 PCI card. The card locked to the 32kHz rate and I recorded as 16 bit in Cubase VST, sounded fine considering the limitations of DAT LP mode.

So I think the earlier problem was because the Mac does not support 32kHz. Most audio interfaces do though.

[Hugh Robjohns]

Thanks Tomas -- that's reassuring to know.

hugh

[chris...]

Yes, if it sends data down the S/PDIF pipe, it will be formated as linearly quantised audio.

Thanks chaps - will give it a whirl and report back. I too have a Tascam DA-20mk2.

The real fun may be DAT tapes that are partly long-play, and partly standard-play. Have a feeling analog may be the way to go for those...

[ken long]

The real fun may be DAT tapes that are partly long-play, and partly standard-play. Have a feeling analog may be the way to go for those...

multiple config DATs with different SRs shouldn't be a problem via S/PDIF. Obviously, you will need to record however many passes you need. Analogue out won't be a big loss but if yyou can do it right, why not?

[chris...]

multiple config DATs with different SRs shouldn't be a problem via S/PDIF.

I guess I'd need to (Plan A) set the computer for 32kHz, and transfer that part of the tape. Then stop, set the computer for 44.1kHz, and then transfer the next part of the tape etc.

I'm thinking I'll find it easier to let the DAT run from start to end, and then do all the editing on the computer afterwards.

Are you suggesting I (Plan B) transfer the whole tape at 32k, and on the computer, locate and cut out the bits that are really 32k. Then transfer the whole tape again at 44k and on the computer [...]. I guess that might just work, if use a lot of DAT-head hours.