Mixing more than one vocal

[Scouser]

Im looking to learn more about mixing multiple vocals, from simple one part harmonies to beach boys type harmonies, backing vox, duo's etc.

I often struggle to get more than one vocal to work together. Obviously I know that if they are using similar frequencies then that wont help, that and panning are the only things ive played around with. I am finding this very limiting as some of my arrangements really require extra vocal parts. I would like to get a better handle on the basic principles. Any articles, books or advice would be much appreciated

[BJG145]

There are a few tips in the "backing vocals" section of this SOS article. Maybe you could post up a clip...? It's not so different from working on a single vocal, except that you need to pay particular attention to timing. Is it mainly mixing that you're concerned with, or also arrangement...?

[Scouser]

There are a few tips in the "backing vocals" section of <a href="/sos/feb12/articles/vocal-production.htm" target="_blank">this SOS article</a> Is it mainly mixing that you're concerned with, or also arrangement...?

Both, but mainly mixing/placement

I dont really have any examples as such, just want to generally have a better idea of basic rules of thumb etc..

[Jack Ruston]

It's almost entirely about the way they're sung. If they fit together in terms of timing, timbre and feel then it's just a simple matter of balancing and panning if required. Sure you can then go on to do all sorts of little eq and placement things but the fundamental requirement is that they're sung appropriately.

J

[Exalted Wombat]

Im looking to learn more about mixing multiple vocals, from simple one part harmonies to beach boys type harmonies, backing vox, duo's etc.

I often struggle to get more than one vocal to work together. Obviously I know that if they are using similar frequencies then that wont help, that and panning are the only things ive played around with. I am finding this very limiting as some of my arrangements really require extra vocal parts. I would like to get a better handle on the basic principles. Any articles, books or advice would be much appreciated

As so often, it's 90% about the music, not much about recording techniques. DO the vocals sound good together? Has everyone chosen the right notes, and are they listening to each other and balancing?

If this is a real vocal group, it's easy. Rehearse until it sounds good, then record it.

If it's one voice multitracked (or if, for some reason, you've convinced yourself that multiple vocalists must be tracked separately) a bit more technique is needed - but it's performance technique, not recording technique. It's hard to balance with a voice that isn't there! Don't be afraid to record one voice, add some further tracks then throw away the first and redo it - now the singer has something to sing WITH.

[The Elf]

A lot about vocals and BVs *is* about the performance, as the other have said.

I was asked to create some vocal harmonies for a household-name singer many years ago. I hired in the best vocalist I knew and we did what I thought was a stunning job of massed vocals.

When the 'name' heard it he was horrified. He said that what I'd created was a lot of 'lead vocals'. Another penny went 'chink!' into my piggybank of experience. I realised that he was absolutely right.

Happily we had another run at it, with another vocalist, and this time it worked just fine. A truly good backing singer is a rare creature, and the very best are often not the best lead vocalists. Lead vocals are about performance, attitude, flair, power and emotion. Backing vocals are about accuracy, delicacy, consistency, timing and an ear for fitting the part to the song. Another way of thinking about it is that a good LV takes control of the song, where a good BV becomes part of the song. It sounds a subtle differentiation, but when you hear it you understand it.

When capturing a set of BVs I sometimes ask the vocalist to back away from the mic. Getting some distance by using the mic is often better than fooling with delays and reverbs aferwards.

Anyway...

Let's assume you're recorded a stunning set of LV and BVs, including multi-part harmonies...

(gotta start somewhere!)

Often you're trying to make an LV bigger and make it pop out of the mix; the opposite is often true for BVs. Thinning them out helps to place them 'behind' the LV. More aggressive HPF/LPF and a little extra reverb/delay can help here. A mid 'scoop' can also work well, especially if there's a build-up of resonances around a specific frequency, which can be the case with massed BVs.

I like to pan BVs away from LVs. Sometimes I want to BVs to sit on the shoulders of the LV, but other times I want to push them out to the sides. Panning wide sometimes makes them demand more of the listener's attention. With multiple harmonies I will often pan each part at varying points across the soundstage. I typically pan higher harmonies closer to the stereo centre, but this is just a matter of taste.

I like to process BVs at group level - typically for EQ and compression. I often use two compressors - one to lift the low-level detail, and the other to hammer down the peaks. I'll use multiple groups, if more specific processing is nessary, then group the groups for easy overall control.

Hope something here helps. As ever, there are no right/wrong answers and I break my own thumb-rules all the time!

[LRS]

A lot about vocals and BVs *is* about the performance, as the other have said.

I was asked to create some vocal harmonies for a household-name singer many years ago. I hired in the best vocalist I knew and we did what I thought was a stunning job of massed vocals.

When the 'name' heard it he was horrified. He said that what I'd created was a lot of 'lead vocals'. Another penny went 'chink!' into my piggybank of experience. I realised that he was absolutely right.

Happily we had another run at it, with another vocalist, and this time it worked just fine. A truly good backing singer is a rare creature, and the very best are often not the best lead vocalists. Lead vocals are about performance, attitude, flair, power and emotion. Backing vocals are about accuracy, delicacy, consistency, timing and an ear for fitting the part to the song. Another way of thinking about it is that a good LV takes control of the song, where a good BV becomes part of the song. It sounds a subtle differentiation, but when you hear it you understand it.

When capturing a set of BVs I sometimes ask the vocalist to back away from the mic. Getting some distance by using the mic is often better than fooling with delays and reverbs aferwards.

Anyway...

Let's assume you're recorded a stunning set of LV and BVs, including multi-part harmonies...

(gotta start somewhere!)

Often you're trying to make an LV bigger and make it pop out of the mix; the opposite is often true for BVs. Thinning them out helps to place them 'behind' the LV. More aggressive HPF/LPF and a little extra reverb/delay can help here. A mid 'scoop' can also work well, especially if there's a build-up of resonances around a specific frequency, which can be the case with massed BVs.

I like to pan BVs away from LVs. Sometimes I want to BVs to sit on the shoulders of the LV, but other times I want to push them out to the sides. Panning wide sometimes makes them demand more of the listener's attention. With multiple harmonies I will often pan each part at varying points across the soundstage. I typically pan higher harmonies closer to the stereo centre, but this is just a matter of taste.

I like to process BVs at group level - typically for EQ and compression. I often use two compressors - one to lift the low-level detail, and the other to hammer down the peaks. I'll use multiple groups, if more specific processing is nessary, then group the groups for easy overall control.

Hope something here helps. As ever, there are no right/wrong answers and I break my own thumb-rules all the time!

Extremely well said... I concur totally.

[djangodeadman]

Some frineds of mine who use Beach Boy style backing vocals in their band always double track each part and it sounds great. they have been playing for thirty years, though, so have had plenty of time to perfect their technique!

[Mixedup]

double track each part

+1. Was working on a big a cappella track only yesterday, for which many parts had been double tracked and it makes things easy. Opposition panning (you can do LCR if you want, or just equal value pans) the two parts can work really well. And then remove horrible resonances that make it into the recording. Maybe tame the harshness with a nice smooth filter or tape sim.

Next if I'm happy is timing - yes, you want a human feel, but if you have rhythmic ooh aahs or obvious consonants they need to be bang on time. You might want to prune some consonants off some parts, depending how they 'stack'. The same goes for breaths - you need some in there to sound natural and help with the rhythm sometimes, but if you have ten parts stacked up and each has a breath that's slightly out of time it sounds awful, particularly when panning things around the stereo field. I'll often edit/automate breaths out of backing parts, and use Waves Debreather (or some such) on more prominent parts, not to remove the breaths but to give me a single control to manage the level of them.

And then think about the reverbs/delays you want to set up as send FX. It can sound a bit weird if you overdo the reverb, but you can also do the bring forward/push back thing with a high-shelf or low-pass filter (brighter = forward, darker = backwards).

Tends to sounds awful if there's too much going on in the 200Hz and 2.5kHz area on all the parts. Also where you know things are layered, you can be aggressive on the HPF with high harmonies, falsetto doubling etc.

I tend to want the bvox and harmony parts to be a bit more controlled than the lead. So I'll be a bit more heavy handed on compression. nothing over the top at any stage, just using a simple comp on each source and giving it a gentle squeeze, and then routing the parts in groups to a buss and giving the buss a squeeze too.

Other than that, I tend to find it's a case of experimenting with different character EQs, compressors etc.

[Exalted Wombat]

Some frineds of mine who use Beach Boy style backing vocals in their band always double track each part and it sounds great. they have been playing for thirty years, though, so have had plenty of time to perfect their technique!

Triple is also worth trying. More than that gets muddy though.

The great point about triple-tracking each part is that, unless the singing is WAY off, you won't even be tempted to correct the tuning.

[alexis]

I've been thinking about the differences between "background vocals" vs. "multiple lead vocals", and would be grateful for any thoughts on how to engineer these.

For example, the two voices in the verses of "She Loves You" and the middle eights of "I Want to Hold Your Hand" and "From Me to You" seem more like two singers up front and together, neither a truly background harmony.

This is to differentiate it from, let's say modern country music (especially with a male vocalist), where the background vocal (usually a 3rd or 4th above) is mixed so low in volume (and I guess probably eq'd and compressed heavily) so that it's more of an ambience than a true 2nd voice, it's barely audible as a separate "instrument". Can post examples if needed ...

And to my ears some music seems to have "co-lead singing" going on simultaneously with and "background singing"! For example the Hollies, at least in my mind has a lead singer, and also a prominently-voiced co-lead singer a 4th above at times (Graham Nash), but the guitarist's voice in the middle is not as prominent, more of a "background" harmony?

Would someone maybe give their thoughts please about how eq and compression etc might differ between these two different kinds of multiple voice recordings?

Thanks!

[mjfe2]

All good points so far. One of my favourite examples of backing vox, apart from the obvious examples (Beatles, Queen etc), is "The Chain" by Fleetwood Mac. Mostly I'd say it comes down to a great performance in each verse, but it's also that the three voices slot together very well in terms of timbre. It sounds like they've been aggressively high-pass filtered and really scooped out for that 'Nashville' (borderline-chipmunk!) sound.

[BigAl]

Getting different singers with different tones helps in many backing vocal situations, rather than double-tracking, although we all double track because we have to - but the same singer doing the backing or all vocals can work, but for all the best harmonies, different tones enhance it much better.
It's all about using vocals as an instrument, reflecting the feeling and dynamics just as any instrument would do.
(my 2p worth)

[matt keen]

One purely practical thing is that I have often found that it sounds better to stand further away from the mic when doing backing vocals compared to where you would be to do a lead vocal. The idea is to have the BV's thinner in tone which naturally distances the voice as far as our hearing perception is concerned.
I fully agree with what Elf and others have said regarding the attitude of the lead vocals compared to a backing vocal

[mjfe2]

One purely practical thing is that I have often found that it sounds better to stand further away from the mic when doing backing vocals compared to where you would be to do a lead vocal. The idea is to have the BV's thinner in tone which naturally distances the voice as far as our hearing perception is concerned.
I fully agree with what Elf and others have said regarding the attitude of the lead vocals compared to a backing vocal

Or sing into the back of the mic, for that matter! All of this relies on a good mic and nice room acoustics though