Korg confirm new analogue MS-20 re-issue

[fatbenelton]

Misread your post but the point is the same - MIDI an & out via USB?

[Richie Royale]

http://www.korg.com/ms20mini

Just says MIDI in and USB connector.

Not that that defeats my post above, I would be using the MIDI in only.

[muzines]

Misread your post but the point is the same - MIDI an & out via USB?

"The MS-20 mini provides a MIDI IN jack for receiving note messages, and a USB-MIDI connector that can transmit and receive note messages. You can even connect the MS20 mini to your computer and play it from a sequencer."

I interpret that to be - the keyboard can generate MIDI notes via the MIDI OUT (USB), and the synth can respond to incoming MIDI notes.

"What about MIDI? And what’s that USB jack for?

MIDI implementation on the MS-20 is bare-bones. Via MIDI DIN cable (the standard MIDI plug), you get only note values in. That works well for sequencing the MS-20 notes, but that’s it. Via USB, you get MIDI notes in and output from the MS-20 mini keyboard.

That’s all, though. The USB port doesn’t provide any further programmability or audio.

Indeed, the one criticism I’d have of the MS-20 mini is its MIDI implementation. It’d be hugely useful to be able to use MIDI control changes for some paramter control. And, indeed, there are other synths that do allow access to at least some of their parameters. Clarification: Note that “useful” or “nice to have” are not the same as “would have made sense.” The MS-20 as a result retains its original analog circuitry, which would need to be changed for MIDI parameter control, and that in turn maintains a simpler design."

[Richie Royale]

If they had built in MIDI to control the functions, I expect the cost would have doubled.

[johnny h]

If they had built in MIDI to control the functions, I expect the cost would have doubled.

No way doubled! Sticking a filter control wouldn't have been too much hassle at all really, but im sure there will be ways of hacking it.

[Hugh Robjohns]

Sticking a filter control wouldn't have been too much hassle at all really...

The Korg designers obviously thought so...

...but im sure there will be ways of hacking it

From where I'm standing, I can see that accepting external MIDI note data and using it essentially to operate the keyboard contacts remotely is a relatively simple and low cost thing to do, with zero impact on the audio circuitry.

However, translating MIDI CC control parameter data into the analogue domain is a whole different kettle of fish which would require a very major redesign of the original synth circuitry, and a lot of D-As and control circuitry would need to be included which would surely defeat the whole point of the reissue, and put the price up substantially.

The bottom line is that if the aim was to include external MIDI control of the MS20s operational controls, you wouldn't really start with the MS20s's relatively simple analogue circuit topology at all.

As designed, the MS20 can be 'played' from a DAW sequencer over MIDI, and you can play a note sequence into the DAW using the MS20 keyboard via MIDI over USB. But making it go zweeeee remains a fully manual exercise!

H

[Richie Royale]

But making it go zweeeee remains a fully manual exercise!

I always knew you were a secret Acid House fan.

[Chevytraveller]

But making it go zweeeee remains a fully manual exercise!

Presumably it retains the CV control inputs?.. Then there are a whole host of ways of making it go "Zweeeee"

[BillB]

Does anyone know if the MS-20 mini works to V/Oct or Hz/V system, and whether the incoming MIDI signal can be output as a CV. Could the mini patchbay readily interface with 'modern' V/Oct modular components like sequencers?

[DGL.]

Does anyone know if the MS-20 mini works to V/Oct or Hz/V system, and whether the incoming MIDI signal can be output as a CV. Could the mini patchbay readily interface with 'modern' V/Oct modular components like sequencers?

If it's based mostly on the original circuitry then I would guess Hz/Oct annoyingly but there must be convertors around now.

[Richie Royale]

http://createdigitalmusic.com/2013/02/hands-on-with-korg-ms-20-mini-exclusive-review-qa-images-video/

The MS-20 mini uses Hertz-per-volt analog control voltage. This scales differently from the volts-per-octave scheme used on Eurorack gear (among others). So, no, you can’t directly plug a Eurorack module into the MS-20 mini and expect predictable control of pitch.

[Richie Royale]

http://trashaudio.com/2013/01/harvestman-english-tear-namm-notes/

Because of this impending instrument release, I announce with great satisfaction ENGLISH TEAR, the first in a line of small utility modules. This module features the expected “voltage processor” attenuverter and big offset knobs, but also includes a full set of functions for interfacing to an MS-20.

[BillB]

DGL - yes, I would have *guessed* the same
Richie - thanks for the clear statement and link

It's a shame that the homage to the original prevented built-in V/Oct conversion. The patchable MS-20 mini could have made a great basis for a low-cost modular system, but notwithstanding convertors, it seems destined mostly to talk to itself. Not a bad thing in itself, but a little limiting.

[Richie Royale]

I guess they wanted to keep it as original as possible with some minor cost saving short cuts such as the smaller jacks.

[Guest]

But making it go zweeeee remains a fully manual exercise!

And that is the joy of analogue.

See also : playing synths by hand instead of sequencing them, when recording them into my DAW....something I've got back into recently.

[BillB]

DGL, Richie, you are both quite right. If the patch panel uses the same "law" (Hz/V) throughout, then it would have been impossible to make it interface to V/Octave systems without completely redesigning the entire MS20 circuit. It is the fact that the mini uses the SAME circuit as the original which is its major selling point.

I just hope folks realise that the MS20 patchbay CVs in/out will only interface to other Korg gear, or via converters, like the one referred to above. Of course the note in/out MIDI interface is a big help, compared to the original

[baward]

Does anyone know if the MS-20 mini works to V/Oct or Hz/V system, and whether the incoming MIDI signal can be output as a CV. Could the mini patchbay readily interface with 'modern' V/Oct modular components like sequencers?

If it's based mostly on the original circuitry then I would guess Hz/Oct annoyingly but there must be convertors around now.

Check my Korg website for MS-20 Tips and Techniques: http://www.korganalogue.net

Cute how Korg have even replicated the original user documentation and the cardboard box from the 1978 MS-20

[Stephen Bennett]

I just hope folks realise that the MS20 patchbay CVs in/out will only interface to other Korg gear, or via converters, like the one referred to above.

Really?

Korg MS-20 with Doepfer Dark Time sequencer.

Korg MS-20 mini with Doepfer Dark Time sequencer

Stephen

[fatbenelton]

I think quite a few non Korg sequencers will work...

I believe the Sequentix Cirklon (with CVIO option) can be set to hz/V and the Elektron Analog Four can as well.

Both expensive but I'm sure similar functionality exists in other kit......

[BillB]

Well, OK... but apart from the Doepfer Dark Time, Sequentix Cirklon (with CVIO option) and the Elektron Analog Four, what have the Romans... oh, sorry, wrong issue there for a moment.

I take your points (and there may be more) but its helpful to distinguish between devices capable of interacting in melodic terms and those just capable of pushing the MS20 to make widdly noises. I have never tried to interface a Hz/V with a V/Oct system, but wonder if its musically controllable? Is it like a using a log pot, where linear is required (or vice-versa) with the result that your musical scale is all crammed at one end of the control pots? Or does it make no difference with continuously-variable pots on a CV sequencer? (Incidentally, the Dark Time could just go MIDI to MIDI, so no issue there anyway).

It is worth using this forum (which ranks well on Google searches) to let the unsuspecting know that there may be issues here. Lets face it, folks brought up on VSTs often ask for help about how to connect two bits of MIDI hardware. So someone who hopes to bag an SH101 or other V/Oct gear on ebay, to go with their shiny MS20 mini, may benefit from a heads-up.

[Stephen Bennett]

I take your points (and there may be more) but its helpful to distinguish between devices capable of interacting in melodic terms and those just capable of pushing the MS20 to make widdly noises. I have never tried to interface a Hz/V with a V/Oct system, but wonder if its musically controllable? Is it like a using a log pot, where linear is required (or vice-versa) with the result that your musical scale is all crammed at one end of the control pots? Or does it make no difference with continuously-variable pots on a CV sequencer? (Incidentally, the Dark Time could just go MIDI to MIDI, so no issue there anyway).

I

I'll tell you when my MS-20 mini arrives - I have a Dark Time.

Regards

Stephen

[DGL.]

I take your points (and there may be more) but its helpful to distinguish between devices capable of interacting in melodic terms and those just capable of pushing the MS20 to make widdly noises. I have never tried to interface a Hz/V with a V/Oct system, but wonder if its musically controllable? Is it like a using a log pot, where linear is required (or vice-versa) with the result that your musical scale is all crammed at one end of the control pots? Or does it make no difference with continuously-variable pots on a CV sequencer? (Incidentally, the Dark Time could just go MIDI to MIDI, so no issue there anyway).

I

I'll tell you when my MS-20 mini arrives - I have a Dark Time.

Regards

Stephen

See here for voltage control of ms20 http://www.doepfer.de/faq/ms2010__faq.htm

[Guest]

Blimey, more analogue goodness from Korg :

http://www.dv247.com/news/Korg%20Volca%20Analogue%20Synths%20Announced/133438

This is going to be an expensive year

[muzines]

Yeah - people have wanted Roland to reissue the 202, 303 and 606 for years, and it was Korg that actually went and did it!

Well, not really, but kinda. Korg really seem to be cashing in on small, affordable and *fun* boxes that capitalise on the physical tweaking that people have often lost since moving to software. Good for them... They aren't ground breaking, but do look fun...

[Richie Royale]

Don't they look cute.

Based on the Monotron sized knobs, I'm guessing they are about the size of a a 303/606? Hard to tell and I can't see the video.

I'm already tempted by the MS20 and one or two of these might be a nice addition to the studio (like I need anymore stuff).