Getting a great live sound for harmony vocalists...

[lindalove]

Hi I sing and play in a folk band that uses a lot of harmony vocals and also has a violinist. At the weekend we have a gig in a London pub where the sound was so bad we couldn't hear ourselves at all which is really REALLY bad for a harmony vocal group. However it sounded perfectly fine/good for the audience. I mean, I could hear some of my band mates but rarely myself at all.
Now we are fairly new to gigging but would appreciate any advice anyone has on the things we should look out for to helping us get better sound for the type of music we do. Our set up is largely acoustic, with 2 guitars, violin, acoustic bass and occasional electric guitar and flute. Three singers.
I have noticed that both times we have had this problem there have been large monitors in front of us - for a mainly acoustic band we find this can really overwhelm us in which case is it acceptable to just get them to turn those things down? would that really help anyway?
Also, what about standing in front of monitors - is there an optimum place to stand so you can hear each other as some of us were in front of the monitors, some not.
If anyone has a 101 guide to being able to hear yourself properly on stage for the kind of band we are I'd really appreciate it. We want to ask the sound guy to make changes but aren't sure what changes we need.

[seablade]

Hi I sing and play in a folk band that uses a lot of harmony vocals and also has a violinist. At the weekend we have a gig in a London pub where the sound was so bad we couldn't hear ourselves at all which is really REALLY bad for a harmony vocal group. However it sounded perfectly fine/good for the audience. I mean, I could hear some of my band mates but rarely myself at all.
Now we are fairly new to gigging but would appreciate any advice anyone has on the things we should look out for to helping us get better sound for the type of music we do. Our set up is largely acoustic, with 2 guitars, violin, acoustic bass and occasional electric guitar and flute. Three singers.
I have noticed that both times we have had this problem there have been large monitors in front of us - for a mainly acoustic band we find this can really overwhelm us in which case is it acceptable to just get them to turn those things down? would that really help anyway?
Also, what about standing in front of monitors - is there an optimum place to stand so you can hear each other as some of us were in front of the monitors, some not.
If anyone has a 101 guide to being able to hear yourself properly on stage for the kind of band we are I'd really appreciate it. We want to ask the sound guy to make changes but aren't sure what changes we need.

Well the first question in your particular situation, is what was making it so you couldn't hear properly? Were the guitars to loud for example? Could your bandmates hear you? This is the information you need to tell your sound guy, and being specific is not a bad thing. If you are hearing so much of one source that you can't hear anything else, let them know. Their job is to get you the sound you need, along with getting the mix correct in FoH. It takes both of these elements to have a good concert, as if you don't get monitor sound right, you will never play as well as you could, and if you don't get FoH sound right, it obviously will sound like crap to your audience:)

In general the more you can balance yourselves acoustically, the easier it becomes to get a good sound both on stage and in FoH. However, especially if you add in or rotate in instruments into the band you aren't used to rehearsing with you can have some issues, and depending on the electric guitar player, my first inclination is to look there as to much electric guitar can make it very hard to hear anything on the stage.

Seablade

[lindalove]

I have no idea why we couldn't hear but it felt like sound was bouncing around all over the place - so have no idea what was causing that. I think my guitar was too low in the mix as couldn't hear that really. The electric wasn't too loud - I think it might have had more to do with the acoustics of the room.

[Guy Johnson]

A lot of it is acoustics ... with acoustic bands it can be quite a good idea to slowly work up the sound from no amplification: ie acoustic. You should be balance yourselves acoustically. You are an acoustic band, after all!
Then, you all get slowly added in to the PA at the same time. See how you feel ... the sound will change, but is it OK?
Same with monitors. You may not want them loud; in any case all they will do is 'take away the echoes' from the room. The whole thing is a minefield of different acoustics, PAs, engineers and noises-off ... like a talking crowd ...

But if in trouble sound-wise and hearing-wise, ask for all the sound to go off, then slowly fade it in. Often works!

[Bob Bickerton]

If I can take a step back......

If you're not used to using monitors it can be daunting and will take time to adjust to them.

The monitor mix will often bear no relationship to what's going out front, or how you will sound if playing just acoustically - why? Because the monitor mix is specifically designed to provide each individual musician with what they themselves need to hear, and at the same time safely ignore whoever else in the band as desired.

So it is utterly up to the musician to dictate what they want to hear in their monitors and whilst the sound engineer may be able to audition your monitor channel on headphones, they are relying on you to tell them what you want.

Because, as an acoustic band, you're used to hearing everyone in the band at an acoustic level when you rehearse, I'd suggest asking the sound engineer to give you a mix of everything in the monitors and probably ask him/her to give you less overall volume. If there's a different send (mix) to each monitor, then each musician can ask for more or less of each different instrument/ voice until all are satisfied.

I do not enjoy the sort of monitor levels rock bands often use and will always work at a lower level or even just switch off monitors and focus on the sound going into the room.

It's always (well always should be) your choice!

Bob

[shufflebeat]

Don't forget it's ok to say to a sound guy "can you come and listen to this?" unless he/she is running round like a lunatic sorting out problems. It's not unknown for a knob twiddler to forget to check how things sound onstage. Often it's quite different to how they imagine and many are working players who know both what's required and also how it can be achieved.

It is true that monitors can take some getting used to. More practice with PA and researching mic technique might be a help.