Vocal mic advice

[Scouser]

I would be interested to know how engineers decide on which vocal mic suits a particular voice or is it that they have favourites that they reach for time after time ?

I have read so many mic shootout articles, but feel you guys could be more specific, if presented with the voice. I don't have the experience so I wouldn't really know where to start.

I have been using a rode NT1 for all my vocal tracks to date and although the results have been reasonable I am aware it will only take me so far.

You can here examples here :

http://www.kompoz.com/compose-collaborate/my.list.project?me...

So what I would really like to know is what mic would you set up for me, given your experience. This could really narrow things down for me when i'm in a position to upgrade. I'm also interested to see if there is any general consensus of opinion.

If it would be better to hear my vocals in isolation, let me know and i will upload something.

Thanks

[The Elf]

I'm sure that every engineer has a short-list of mic's for any source - in fact I have a conceptual 'family tree' of mic's in my head that I can work through for any source I'm trying to represent. Some of my choices are slightly odd, I'll admit, but I get the gigs, so...

I'm not always looking for the mic that 'flatters' the specific voice out of context. In one song I may choose a mic to add weight and power to a voice, but in a busy rock mix, for example, I may need something that reduces the weight and adds grit/cut.

You have quite a treacley voice, so I'd perhaps try a U87 first. This mic can really bring out a solid voice's weight and strength. If I needed a little more air/sibilance I may try my MXL V69 or V6, which do a nice spot of valve sweetening. If I needed more grit, or mid-range cut for a busy mix I'd maybe try one of my favoured dynamics, such as MD421, i5,or SM57, but if you were a bit shrill I'd try an MD441. If I really wanted to get some crunch and/or thin out your vocal I'd wield my trusty EV635.

During this process we'd try different mic positions too. Moving a mic can make a big difference in taming boom, sibilance, or just making the vocalist perform better - opening their windpipe if the mic is place higher, for instance.

That's just a quick thought process, based on your particular voice as I've heard it in the past.

I can always dial in a couple of pre emulations with my Liquid Channel to help things along too. When you're getting 90% of the way there with the mic and position then the choice of pre can add the subtle touch you need for another 5-10%

HTH in some way!

[Bob Bickerton]

Nice songs.........

A few questions though, do you track vocals and guitar together? Is your room treated? What's you're budget?

I feel the recorded voice lacks perhaps a little warmth and that the upper mids sound a little over-hyped, but then this could be how you've processed the tracks, so it's hard to say without hearing an unprocessed track.

Anyway, I'd be thinking something without an overly hyped high end, perhaps SM7 or TLM193.

When recording a new vocalist, I always explain that it will take a few minutes to select a microphone, but before I put up a mic, I've already quizzed them about their style and listened to their spoken voice. I'll then ask them to sing a song for me, and then I'll select a first mic based on that assessment and then change if necessary.

So I'm listening for the sonic quality in their voice, what character needs to be enhanced or reduced, and how to deal with that in the context of the recording they are making. I think the SOS article on vocal mic selection covers this very well indeed.

Most importantly, is for you to try out a microphone, if you can, before committing, even hire it.

Having said that the mics above are 'keepers' anyway.

And there are so many vocal mics out there, I'm sure you'll get as many suggestions as there are replies to your post

Bob

[Scouser]

Thanks Elf & Bob, for the detailed replies.

Really appreciate this kind of feedback..

A few questions though, do you track vocals and guitar together? Is your room treated? What's you're budget

I track voice and guitar separately. Room is untreated, although recently I have built a few panels which has helped.

With regard to budget, I would just like to save for the right mic, although as Elf pointed out, there may be instances were different mics would be used to achieve different results, I would like to find one that could cope with most situations reasonably well..

[The Elf]

It all depends on your aspirations and budget, of course. A U87 remains my 'reassuringly expensive' choice. It never sounds naff, but it's a heck of an investment. The TLM103 has much of the character of the U87 as a vocal mic at a much lower cost.

You really need to get into a situation where you can compare a few mic's to make a properly informed choice for yourself. Ideally you'd have the mic's in your own environment. One way to achieve this might be to buy (secondhand ideally), try & sell them on. This gives you time to get to know each mic better. You might even make a profit!

Any of the mic's I mentioned above (with the slightly quirky EV635 as a possible exception!) are worth trying. Bang for buck I'd say the MXL V6 is my top tip.

If you're ever up this way you're welcome to come try any of my collection.

[John Willett]

I would be interested to know how engineers decide on which vocal mic suits a particular voice or is it that they have favourites that they reach for time after time ?

I have read so many mic shootout articles, but feel you guys could be more specific, if presented with the voice. I don't have the experience so I wouldn't really know where to start.

Where to start is to try some mics out for yourself.

Good dealers and distributors will normally be able to loan you something to try.

I would suggest you sort a rough budget and then look at the manufacturers / distributors websites to see what they have in your price range.

Then see if a dealer / distributor can loan you some to try.

[Tim Gillett]

I would be interested to know how engineers decide on which vocal mic suits a particular voice or is it that they have favourites that they reach for time after time ?

I have read so many mic shootout articles, but feel you guys could be more specific, if presented with the voice. I don't have the experience so I wouldn't really know where to start.

Are you saying you dont feel confident trying out various mics yourself and would like others with more experience to make suggestions as to which might be the best mic(s) for you?

Cheers Tim

[Ron Snijders]

I would be interested to know how engineers decide on which vocal mic suits a particular voice or is it that they have favourites that they reach for time after time ?

I have read so many mic shootout articles, but feel you guys could be more specific, if presented with the voice. I don't have the experience so I wouldn't really know where to start.

Are you saying you dont feel confident trying out various mics yourself and would like others with more experience to make suggestions as to which might be the best mic(s) for you?

Cheers Tim

If I may answer this question from my own viewpoint: being a beginner in this business, for me it's very hard to know what to look for in a mic. I'm building a collection of nice ones, based mostly on reviews and the fact that high-quality mics will always be good to have, but to actually pick the one that's best for my voice, no idea where to start. I could just put a few in front of me as a sortof coincident array and start belting away, but that doesn't necessarily tell me what will sit decently in a mix once fully dressed.
Should I just record with all of them and spend a few days trying to get the best sound I can from all of them and then decide which one was best? But that doesn't seem to fit with the 'we need a few minutes to select the best mic' that appears to be common practice with more experienced engineers.

That's just my view, I hope I'm somewhere in the vicinity of the original poster, as I don't mean to hijack someone else's topic!

[Strangy]

some engineers will have been using these different mics over many, many years and get to know the different tonalities / characteristics inside out, hence the 'we need a few minutes to select the best mic' comments.

published freq charts can sometimes give you an approx. idea of what to expect, hopefully both the on-axis and off-axis responses, although take some of these with a pinch of salt!

Listen to an SM57 and look at the chart, or an Audix D6 and look at the chart... you can hear those peaks and cuts fairly clearly in these examples, and over time you’ll start to notice these peaks/cuts and more easily be able to narrow down your choice of most suitable mic.

As a simple example: recording a naturally very bright, sibilant vocalist. You'd probably refrain from selecting a mic with an obviously bright tone as your fist choice, since this may exaggerate the sibilance and result in a super-bright recording. A flat mic, would probably be a wiser choice, and a darker mic may ‘tame’ or shift the response of the brightness of the voice, resulting in a more balanced, and pleasing recording. It does of course also depend on what the rest of the mix allows and desired aesthetic calls for!

[The Elf]

I can sympathise with the 'don't know where to start' feeling. I've had decades of working to a point where I know what is likely to do the job, and to also know what I'm listening for. This is one of those 'don't know what you don't know' starting points that really doesn't have a satisfactory answer beyond "dive in and start swimming!"

A few of the people I mentor/teach (including a few on these fora) will be familiar with the experience of learning the art of EQ with me. When I mention that there is a resonance I think needs taming in a signal they look at me with that 'what the heck is he hearing?' expression, yet when I make the EQ cut, then switch the EQ in and out it is very obvious what I meant. Believe me, I went through the same agonies when I learned the craft!

Mic's are very similar. When you can hear two mic's side by side, and you can have someone there pointing out the differences, it does all start to make sense, but on your own it can seem like comparing shades of beige!

[Ron Snijders]

Can you imagine how I felt when I had quite some trouble hearing the differences between a friend's Røde NT-1A and my Telefunken AK-47 that just came in? Then again, it was only a very short recording with a very limited vocal timbre in very bad conditions. So I guess that didn't help either.

So I guess I'll just have to start figuring it out then. When my two most recent purchases come in, I'll have two KM143s, an AK-47, a Sontronics Sigma and a C414XLII to compare between. If I still can't or can hardly hear the difference, maybe I should just find another hobby

[Scouser]

It all depends on your aspirations and budget, of course. A U87 remains my 'reassuringly expensive' choice. It never sounds naff, but it's a heck of an investment. The TLM103 has much of the character of the U87 as a vocal mic at a much lower cost.

Aspirations are high, not sure about budget, I don't really want that to influence suggestions too much. I'm just hoping that at some point in the future I can buy something decent.

Thats the distinction im trying to make, the difference between an engineer just reaching for something he knows so well, he can make it work in almost any situation,( I imagine the U87 falls into that category ?) and someone saying this mic is very well suited to your voice, im particularly interested in the latter, even though I guess it's somewhat subjective.

You really need to get into a situation where you can compare a few mic's to make a properly informed choice for yourself. Ideally you'd have the mic's in your own environment. One way to achieve this might be to buy (secondhand ideally), try & sell them on. This gives you time to get to know each mic better. You might even make a profit!

That makes sense Elf, unfortunately on the island, it's not so easy to get hold of mics to try. With regard to buying second hand and selling on I would fail, don't know enough, great idea though.

Any of the mic's I mentioned above (with the slightly quirky EV635 as a possible exception!) are worth trying. Bang for buck I'd say the MXL V6 is my top tip.

If you're ever up this way you're welcome to come try any of my collection.

As you have listened to my voice I take this suggestion seriously, it seems a very reasonably priced mic too..

A very kind offer also Elf, I would love to do that, will have to pm you re this.. I don't pass Sheffield everyday, but it wouldn't be too much of a detour when I drive up north to see folks..

Are you saying you dont feel confident trying out various mics yourself and would like others with more experience to make suggestions as to which might be the best mic(s) for you?

That's exactly what i'm saying Then I would endeavour to try out those suggested mics.

As a simple example: recording a naturally very bright, sibilant vocalist. You'd probably refrain from selecting a mic with an obviously bright tone as your fist choice, since this may exaggerate the sibilance and result in a super-bright recording. A flat mic, would probably be a wiser choice, and a darker mic may ‘tame’ or shift the response of the brightness of the voice, resulting in a more balanced, and pleasing recording. It does of course also depend on what the rest of the mix allows and desired aesthetic calls for!

Sounds like good advice strangy

Mic's are very similar. When you can hear two mic's side by side, and you can have someone there pointing out the differences, it does all start to make sense, but on your own it can seem like comparing shades of beige!

That would help tremendously Elf, can you be my mentor too

So, any more mic suggestions.. ?

[The Elf]

Mic's are very similar. When you can hear two mic's side by side, and you can have someone there pointing out the differences, it does all start to make sense, but on your own it can seem like comparing shades of beige!

That would help tremendously Elf, can you be my mentor too

Normally I'd say "I'm available at very reasonable rates", but my books are chock full at the moment (thought my rates remain reasonable )! If you'd like me to hold your name for when someone drops off my list then I'm happy to let you know - PM me any time.

[Jack Ruston]

Hey Joe

So your voice doesn't have anything about it that needs 'controlling' as such....It's not overly bright, spitty or sibilant. It's on the soft side so I'd want to emphasise midrange a little more rather than going for something that was all top and bottom. If I was in a studio I'd be looking at the Neumanns. The same models can vary quite a bit, but a good 47, 49, 67 (brighter, not quite as chesty) or possibly 87 (cleaner, sometimes nasal) would be the sort of thing I'd try. Some examples can be a bit fuzzy.

But here's the problem....people have been trying, with varying levels of success to make modern mics which have that sort of midrange thing happening. The more successful options tend to be the ones that cost nearly as much as the originals!

If I were you I wouldn't buy anything. I'd do your demos with your Rode, which is a decent microphone, and if for some reason you need to get a better sonic result than that, I'd go to a studio to do the vocal. You could spend 3k buying yourself a mic that would be far better than the Rode, but to what ultimate end? Your 'product' is your songs. Chasing sonics is a distraction from that.

J

[Scouser]

As ever sound, practical advice,

Ta Jack