Preamp on preamp?

[gazza1967]

I have a mackie onyx 1640i mixer which, as the brochure informs me, has the wonderful mackie pre amps built in.
No complaints, all sound ok to me
I've also got a ua 710 pre amp, sound good to me too

But, as I don't think I can turn off the mackie preamps am I just or preamping a preamp (mackiefying a ua710)
Or do I turn the gain down on the mackie and up on the 710?

Would this mean that if I bought a 610 it wouldn't sound as it should?

Sorry if this is a really silly question, but it's confusing me!

Thanks in advance

Gary

[Mixedup]

If you want to go through the channels with EQ yes, you'll be passing the signal through both preamps, as the line in is just a padded mic amp. But you could alternatively patch your UA into the unbalanced tape ins or the bal/unbal aux returns, and get the signal into your desk/DAW that way. If you really want to use the EQ, you could patch the UA in to the insert return point on the Mackie, but I've not bothered to see what connection that will expect to see.

Anyway, try the aux return one first and see if you can tell the difference in the two setups - if not, then, well, it doesn't really matter, does it?

[gazza1967]

Thanks for the really prompt response

I hadn't thought of using the returns, I'll give it a try when I get home

[nathanscribe]

I run my UA710 into an insert on my A&H Zed R16. I contacted UA first just to make sure I didn't blow anything up, and they recommended making up a cable with ground and cold connected at the XLR end (ie, the 710's output). Connect your 710's hot pin to your insert jack's return and leave the send unconnected (on the A&H, return = ring). That bypasses the pre-amp on the mixer but allow you to use the EQ.

I don't know how the 1640i works as an interface, but using a channel insert on the Zed R16 means my 710's signal goes pretty much straight into the converters that way, and I think that's about the cleanest it could get. The Zed doesn't take the returns in as separate DAW inputs, so maybe double check on the 1640i.

[Hugh Robjohns]

But, as I don't think I can turn off the mackie preamps am I just or preamping a preamp (mackiefying a ua710) Or do I turn the gain down on the mackie and up on the 710?

I've not checked the schematics of the specific desk, but in general desks of this type route the line input through a pad to make it mic level, and then it goes through the standard channel mic preamp.

So yes, you have two preamps in series, both contributing their own character, noise and distortion. Thankfully, noise and distortion is very low with modern preamps and it's rarely a problem working this way.

However, if you want to bypass the desk preamp completely, the usual solution is to connect via the insert return point, since this usually breaks the desk channel signal path between the pramp and EQ sections.

It's an unbalanced input of course, but that isn't normally a problem. What you will need is an appropriate cable that allows you to connect the output of your external preamp to the ring (return) contact of the insert lead.

H

[Dr Huge Longjohns]

both contributing their own character, noise and distortion

You'd pay £200 for that in a plugin!

[gazza1967]

Thanks guys
Useful info (as ever )

In terms of the lead, could I use a y lead but only connect the return into the pre amp, leaving the send lead disconnected (or connected to an empty patch bay)
Or do I need a special lead?

Thanks for your help

[Hugh Robjohns]

In terms of the lead, could I use a y lead but only connect the return into the pre amp, leaving the send lead disconnected (or connected to an empty patch bay)

Yep -- that will work fine... But it would be worth checking the preamp manual to see if you need to do anything special to connect its balanced output to the unbalanced insert cable.

H

[nathanscribe]

it would be worth checking the preamp manual to see if you need to do anything special to connect its balanced output to the unbalanced insert cable.

It's not in the manual, but as I mentioned earlier UA's tech support recommend tying the 710's balanced output's cold to ground at the XLR end. Easy cable to make, barely time to finish a cup of tea while doing it!

[Exalted Wombat]

If you like the intentional distortions of the ua 710, it should make no difference if you feed its output through the clean preamps of the Mackie.

If you're looking for an ultra-clean signal path, why use the ua 710 at all?

[gazza1967]

Thanks guys
All useful stuff

Why do it? Well initially to try it and compare the differences. See how the two compare individually and together. Until I could separate I couldn't do this.
Also, if I decided to get a posh preamp, I wanted to be sure it would by pass the mixers preamp.

Thanks for all the comments and advice

Cheers

[Exalted Wombat]

If you're looking for a clean signal path, you don't need a "posh" preamp.

If you're looking for desirable distortion from an external preamp, it won't sound any different direct or through the Mackie preamp.

If you have to listen VERY hard to convince yourself an expensive toy sounds different (let alone better) save your money!