Completing projects without deadlines

[Scouser]

Was just wondering if anyone can give me some pointers on the above question. As I make music, largely for my own pleasure/passion, as such I don't have any deadlines, having said that I would like to create a body of work that I may be able to pitch at some point in the future

The problem with this arrangement means things can take far longer than they should and often do! Not having a deadline often has a negative effect on my work, as I can always say this can be improved upon, or let me try this or that etc etc. So it can become an experiment rather than capturing the core idea.

For example I usually do my songwriting with acoustic guitar, lets call this stage 1, I find this part enjoyable and the most natural part of the process, so I develop an idea/chord structure and some melody to go with it.

Stage 2, I write the lyrics and decide on a structure for the song ie verse chorus mid verse chorus.

At this stage, often I would like to record the vox and guitar and for them to work in their own right, however this seldom happens, ie, it never really sounds how I would like it too. Now its not because I cant sing or play as I have done that professionally for a number of years.

Stage 3, I look for some basic drum patterns for my song, lay them down and then get the acoustic guitar down. I think it is at this stage that things start slowing down. As I mentioned earlier getting a good produced sound from just guitar and vox doesn't happen,( not that it's terrible ) so it seems I add tracks until it does, is that one of the flaws in my workflow ? So I guess from this point on im adding bass, refining drums, second guitar, vox, backing vox, searching endlessly for the right keyboard sound etc trying this plugin or that reverb. So in short experimenting. Im sure some of the best things come from experimenting but it can also be a dead end road. It's like im searching for things that work together sonically. To some extent I have tried to remedy this situation the only way I know how, that is to have a definite goal every time I sit down at my daw, and not to be distracted from it, this works to a large extent, but then I reach a point where I don't know what is missing or what needs to be done, or how to bring it together as a whole, so I go on experimenting and wait for inspiration to come along, however sometimes I have been working on details for so long it becomes tiresome and loses its original charm.

Because my main experience is in playing and performing I try to get the best sound going into my daw, essentially because a. it is good practice and b. I don't have the confidence/experience of the hundreds of plugins that come bundled with your daw of choice, I think because I lack all that knowledge my music must be missing some magic, which has me, at times, searching blindly for some magic ingredient that will complete the job.

I'm aware that when you do everything yourself, it can be a long process, but I want to get to a stage were I can finish a track in a week or two rather than two months!

I've read books watched videos, spent 5+ years learning my art but still feel im not making the most of my time.. I am quite disciplined, as far as I can be, but there are times when I get stuck, scratching my head thinking "whats not right here" "what do I need to add to this to make it sound complete" and it can seem at times im thinking these things far more than doing anything constructive.. `

Perhaps Im taking the wrong approach and could improve my workflow ?

Would really appreciate any thoughts you have on this

[Exalted Wombat]

Will the "body of work" be the songs or the recordings?

A few years back a lady came to me wanting to develop her songwriting skills.

I was able to make most Tuesday evenings available to her. Each week the job was this: Turn up with an idea. End the evening with a printed lead sheet and a rough recording. No matter how much input was her, how much me - just get a result.

We kept it up for the best part of a year. It worked. Very soon the songs started being 90% her work.

Even if this isn't your scenario, the same principle applies. Work fast, work rough maybe, but work LOTS. How many tracks would it be reasonable to expect by the end of next month? 10? Off you go!

[Bruce Watson]

Not having a deadline often has a negative effect on my work, as I can always say this can be improved upon, or let me try this or that etc etc. So it can become an experiment rather than capturing the core idea.

Create a deadline. Problem solved.

I used to do this all the time for my photography. It was a good tool to make me finish an image and start on the next.

And if you think that's artificial, you're correct. But the world is full of artificial deadlines. Anyone who's been in just about any school system anywhere in the world knows how that works. Just because it's artificial, doesn't mean it's not a deadline. It's all in how you react to it.

[The Elf]

As I mentioned earlier getting a good produced sound from just guitar and vox doesn't happen,( not that it's terrible ) so it seems I add tracks until it does, is that one of the flaws in my workflow ?

Possibly. If you're adding parts to cover/prop up existing parts then it's not working, IMO - scrap the recording and move on. If you're adding parts because the song tells you they are 'missing', then you're on the right track.

A well-structured song has a way of telling you what it needs - bass here... drums here... harmonies here... IME the songs that don't tell you this are the ones that need more work on the basic structure.

The advice above is good - make a deadline. The other thing is to pay yourself for your time. Be honest about it - put it in a savings account or something. When you're running out of pocket money it really can focus the mind!

[Scouser]

Will the "body of work" be the songs or the recordings?

A few years back a lady came to me wanting to develop her songwriting skills.

I was able to make most Tuesday evenings available to her. Each week the job was this: Turn up with an idea. End the evening with a printed lead sheet and a rough recording. No matter how much input was her, how much me - just get a result.

We kept it up for the best part of a year. It worked. Very soon the songs started being 90% her work.

Even if this isn't your scenario, the same principle applies. Work fast, work rough maybe, but work LOTS. How many tracks would it be reasonable to expect by the end of next month? 10? Off you go!

Sometimes making these posts makes you reflect on things differently somehow, I'm getting a bit of clarity already..

Yeh makes sense rather than spending lots of time working on 1 good song, write and complete more material, simple in essence.. I guess that way even though I may be working rough, I can pursue anything that warrants more attention.

Create a deadline. Problem solved

It sounds silly to say I have tried this but obviously I have, but perhaps the point is I haven't stuck to it for one reason or another, clearly that needs to be addressed

Possibly. If you're adding parts to cover/prop up existing parts then it's not working, IMO - scrap the recording and move on. If you're adding parts because the song tells you they are 'missing', then you're on the right track.

I guess I would say I add parts to support what I have. I suppose a question which springs to mind is, could it be that you might have a perfectly good vocal and acoustic recording and not exactly know it, if you don't know what processing will bring to the table ? Hope that makes sense

A well-structured song has a way of telling you what it needs - bass here... drums here... harmonies here... IME the songs that don't tell you this are the ones that need more work on the basic structure.

The advice above is good - make a deadline. The other thing is to pay yourself for your time. Be honest about it - put it in a savings account or something. When you're running out of pocket money it really can focus the mind!

Great advice as ever elf, I cant afford to pay myself, unless its in beans

[The Bunk]

I'm just a typical "spare bedroom" producer and often go through phases of just losing interest, getting distracted by other things etc etc. Personally I've always found working to a deadline helps (and that goes back to schooldays...homework always done at the last minute but I invariably did a better job the later I left it as I tended to focus more).
Just an idea for creating a deadline....at Christmas several years ago I started bunging a CD of the work I'd done during the course of the year round to my friends with my Xmas card. Most of them probably ended up as drinks mats or in the bin but a few of my mates would have a good old listen and "critique". So even round about now, July, I'm thinking "how many tracks will I have and are they good enough?" That thinking usually helps focus the mind as soon as I start working on something, even if it's in early February.
Someone's birthday is another one. A female singer I record with always likes to give her dad a CD with various tracks we've recorded on his birthday.
So, as someone has suggested earlier, set a deadline but maybe don't just say "I'll finish this by the end of July". Try and create a date with a specific reason for finishing a project...

[ConcertinaChap]

As I've moved into doing paid work I've realised there's nothing like having a paying customer for focussing the mind. You're working for yourself, so see if you can create a customer. Have you got a Significant Other who you can involve in the recording? Or perhaps some mates who would be interested? Promise them a CD by a certain date. Might work ...

CC

Edited to say I see The Bunk is thinking in much the same way.

[Russell B]

I know the problem as I think all writers do.
One of the things I do is invite another musician for a session offering them some free studio time maybe and sit there and let things happen but don't try and complete a song get lots of ideas working.
In Cubase I find if I can get the basic structure of a song done with Acoustic Gtr, click and chord track even if the melody is just hummed means I can come back to it anytime I'm in the mood and if I have no inspiration on one song I find by the time I reach the third the ideas are starting to flow and just adding a basic bass track will often point you in the right direction. But I never try to do too much unless it all seems to flow, I just move on to another track. Eventually you find that the tracks are writing themselves.
I also find that having another person there means you waste less time once the session is flowing. I am doing this at the moment with another musician and last week we wrote the basics of 3 songs in about 4 hours including all the tea and jokes.

Cheers Russell

[The Elf]

could it be that you might have a perfectly good vocal and acoustic recording and not exactly know it, if you don't know what processing will bring to the table ?

Processing should be making a good-sounding recording sound even better. If you start the process by accepting compromises because you can 'fix it in the mix' then you're building on shaky foundations - you'll be fighting the problems constantly and never be happy with the final result. I've been there in the past and learned the hard way.

[The Bunk]

I also find that having another person there means you waste less time once the session is flowing. I am doing this at the moment with another musician and last week we wrote the basics of 3 songs in about 4 hours including all the tea and jokes.

Cheers Russell

Yes, involving another person is another "driver"; nothing worse than them coming round to record something and you say "sorry, I haven't got the backing track quite finished yet..."

[Scramble]

Pick a charity or cause or political party or sports team that you dislike. Promise that unless you have met a previously-set goal on time you will donate, say £150 to it.

This works* even better if you have a partner who likes that thing and will make sure you keep your promise.

*I say 'works', but of course this doesn't really work any more than any of the other ideas do.

[Music Wolf]

Eventually you find that the tracks are writing themselves.

It's been a while now since I worked on any original material but, when I did, I found that either I or the band would reach a point in the project where it felt as though you were racing to keep up with several songs on the go at once and new ideas flooding in. As you need to have a different mindset for say writing lyrics as compared to editing a vocal track or arranging strings it's good to have something different to work on in case you find yourself stuck. Of course you have to be careful that you don't put off the things that you don't find so easy by concentrating all the time on aspects that you do find easy.

Nowadays my recording is all to do with making backing tracks for the function band. Genuine deadlines, such as the next gig or rehearsal date, together with limited available time due to pressures of the day job / family mean that I'm forced to work really quickly. It's an almost industrial process.

[CS70]

The problem with this arrangement means things can take far longer than they should and often do!

My $.10: there's things in life that are important. In someone's life, you can tell what they are by looking at how hard he/she strives and manages to get them, or get them done. It's a wonderful tool - which takes away loads of bs, wishful thinking and the general consensus of what should be important.

Besides the basics (to eat and to stay warm), others may be surprised at what is important to you. Heck, you may be surprised (and even troubled) yourself of is important to you when measured that way.

If your songs are important, finishing them will be a priority. You'll get physically sick of not having finished them, and your instinct will be to finish them even if they aren't perfect - as opposite to keep dabbling with them. I know that once I've worked on a song for a while, I just want to get it done - I need to get it done - to feel good.. done as best as I know and can in that moment. And then get on to the next. I have the same attitude for all stuff I care for - to me, it's the *definition* of caring for something. Half-ways aren't good. I drop loads of other stuff, even stuff I am pretty good at (or used to be, or could be), simply because I don't get (or get anymore) that urge. If you don't have that need of seeing your songs done, find something else for which you have it - and that'll be your thing.

Or just be satisfied that your urge is more about the process of working with music than actually composing anything to its final shape. Lots of instrumentalists never compose much and are very happy with it. Lots of people tinker with car mechanics because they love it, but never get a car completely restored. And so forth. Sometimes the fun - the important bit - is in the process.

I know it doesn't help much, but I have found countless times that life gets so much better if you focus on stuff where "getting it done" is not a problem, but a need and a pleasure.

[Exalted Wombat]

...getting a good produced sound from just guitar and vox doesn't happen,( not that it's terrible ) so it seems I add tracks until it does, is that one of the flaws in my workflow ?

Home multitrack recording can lead us into the misconception that it's all about layering more and more stuff on top of a basic recording.

If you started off with guitar and voice, it's quite possible the guitar played FAR too much, leaving no space for anything else.

[Scouser]

But I never try to do too much unless it all seems to flow, I just move on to another track. Eventually you find that the tracks are writing themselves.

I have found that starting something new, when I'm stuck, can be a good idea. This way I am not standing still but still creating, when you have 4/5 it's more of a pleasure revisiting them. Rather than focusing the attention on one track

Processing should be making a good-sounding recording sound even better. If you start the process by accepting compromises because you can 'fix it in the mix' then you're building on shaky foundations - you'll be fighting the problems constantly and never be happy with the final result. I've been there in the past and learned the hard way.

So it should be possible to get something that sounds complete without processing ?

Of course you have to be careful that you don't put off the things that you don't find so easy by concentrating all the time on aspects that you do find easy.

Very good point and one I must follow up, as you say it can be easy breezing through the parts we enjoy doing most, only to find rather than one unfinished song, you have 10
Although there is a lesson in that too, as it helps you see what part of the process is slowing you down. Sometimes when you are wearing all the hats yourself ie writer, arranger, player, engineer, producer, etc etc it seems logical that it might take quite some time to get the desired result. Obviously the size of the project plays a part too, something with 40 tracks and lots of programming, is going to take a lot longer than doing a guitar and vocal.

My $.10: there's things in life that are important. In someone's life, you can tell what they are by looking at how hard he/she strives and manages to get them, or get them done. It's a wonderful tool - which takes away loads of bs, wishful thinking and the general consensus of what should be important.

If your songs are important, finishing them will be a priority. You'll get physically sick of not having finished them, and your instinct will be to finish them even if they aren't perfect - as opposite to keep dabbling with them. I know that once I've worked on a song for a while, I just want to get it done - I need to get it done - to feel good.. done as best as I know and can in that moment. And then get on to the next. I have the same attitude for all stuff I care for - to me, it's the *definition* of caring for something. Half-ways aren't good. I drop loads of other stuff, even stuff I am pretty good at (or used to be, or could be), simply because I don't get (or get anymore) that urge. If you don't have that need of seeing your songs done, find something else for which you have it - and that'll be your thing.

Maybe you can care too much ? I guess I have the mentality, that if something is worth doing, it's worth doing properly. I suppose I have difficulty with the notion of "finish them even if they aren't perfect" Im not sure its the best compromise, and feel the material might suffer as a result, however im up for giving it a shot for sure, nothing to lose

If you started off with guitar and voice, it's quite possible the guitar played FAR too much, leaving no space for anything else.

Yep I've had that happen..

[Folderol]

I think it's very easy to add to much trying to 'fill in the gaps'. The gaps are needed! Also, done with care, simple can be excellent. I still remember (from when I was a teenager) a folk singer performing Unchained Melody with just her voice and guitar.

Oh, and in the same vein, she didn't invoke the vocal gymnastics which personally I find detracts from the song.

[The Elf]

Processing should be making a good-sounding recording sound even better. If you start the process by accepting compromises because you can 'fix it in the mix' then you're building on shaky foundations - you'll be fighting the problems constantly and never be happy with the final result. I've been there in the past and learned the hard way.

So it should be possible to get something that sounds complete without processing ?

To a great extent. Invariably a little subjective improvement can be made, both dynamically and tonally, but if you have the right mic's in front of the right performer, in the right space, on the right day... you're 90% there.

[Scouser]

To a great extent. Invariably a little subjective improvement can be made, both dynamically and tonally, but if you have the right mic's in front of the right performer, in the right space, on the right day... you're 90% there.

It would be good to hear some well known tracks without processing, so you have a benchmark/reference. Thanks for clearing that one up Elf

[CS70]

Maybe you can care too much ? I guess I have the mentality, that if something is worth doing, it's worth doing properly. I suppose I have difficulty with the notion of "finish them even if they aren't perfect" Im not sure its the best compromise, and feel the material might suffer as a result, however im up for giving it a shot for sure, nothing to lose

Yes, surely you can. The need I'm talking about is for something to see the light, to be done. They're never going to be perfect, but neither are you nor any of us, so it's alright