Quality DA conversion - helpful or not?

[RishiP]

I've seen interviews with producers saying that their audio interface makes things sound "better" due to the DA conversion (described as kick punchier, bass deeper, vocals clearer). My question is, wouldnt having a DA conversion that makes everything sound "better" be detrimental to a mix? If they had said "accurate" its a different story, but I'd imagine that getting a mix to sound good on these higher end DA convertors may not translate as well to consumer products. Or are these producers using the excellent DA conversion on their multioutputs to their analog summing mixers (in which case excellent DA would make a huge difference vs in the box mixing)

Thanks
Rishi

[Hugh Robjohns]

When anyone spends money on something new, it will always be inherently 'better' than what they had before.

The audible differences between the 'very best' and the 'ordinary' D-A converters really isn't a great deal, and it requires superb monitors and excellent room acoustics to perceive anyway.

I'd put this kind of claim down to enthusiastic hype, and worry about the things that really do make a major difference: composition, arrangement, performance, room acoustics and mic position -- in that order.

H

[muzines]

Totally agree with Hugh.

And just because a "producer" says something, doesn't necessarily make it true.

There are amazing guys out there who totally know their stuff, but there are also plenty who aren't up on the tech really - that doesn't necessarily make them a "bad" producer though, of course.

And hey, doesn't everyone call themselves a "producer" these days anyway..?

[recordplay]

I just swapped my M-Audio Fast Track Pro for an Apogee Duet and the differences are huge.
Also my access virus D/A is even worse than the M-Audio, so bad I've never used it as it sounds terrible.

I thought that there were massive differences from doing this upgrade and no longer feel like I have a bottle neck at D/A stage?

Maybe I'm still hyped with the duet though, its like a new car I glance back it when I leave the studio.. smiling..... Ha, so its possible

[SafeandSound Mastering]

I happen to think high end DA and AD is important to fidelity but as Hugh mentions only when you have all other aspects of your studio and techniques optimized. Then you can hear the minor sonic effects that the conversion imparts. (or does not impart)

Once you hit a certain level of fidelity you need to be able to trust what you are hearing, this in turn builds confidence which is also important.

If you are charging for a service this becomes even more important.

[ef37a]

"Better" compared to what?

The term High Fidelity is a much abused one but really means the same as Mr Walker's (Quad) "Closest approach to the original sound"

In many cases, a mix for example, there is no original sound with which to compare.

The mic pre amp tests threw up some interesting data (and a lot of muck!). A converter shootout on similar lines would I am sure produce many of the same counter-intuitive anomalies!

I DO understand the difficulties. We used to get AI comparisons, mainly from Martin but I can see that even if all reasonable care is taken, (over levels etc) the results are subtle and in the end it is only Martin's, Hugh's or Paul's call. And those that say "night and day" must post clips..PUorSU!
Dave.

[mjfe2]

I just swapped my M-Audio Fast Track Pro for an Apogee Duet and the differences are huge.

I noticed the same difference when I upgraded from a Mackie Onyx interface to an RME one. But I've since decided the improvement was mostly to do with the improved quality of the RME headphone amp. The Mackie headphone output sounded bloated in the lower mids and congested by comparison. However, I also noticed that the older recordings I'd made on the Mackie didn't sound problematic through the RME, which was telling...

[Martin Walker]

Hi Rishi!

You've already been given lots of helpful advice, but you may also find having a read of my 'Perfect Conversion - 3 Stand-alone D-A Converters Compared' feature from SOS January 2009 helpful:

http://www.soundonsound.com/sos/jan09/a ... erters.htm

Fingers crossed anyway!

Martin