Capturing drum performance with electric kit... recommendations?

[maskedwarrior]

Hi there - this is a recording-related issue many people must have.

Basically I would like to capture the timing/dynamics of a true drum performance, but I'm not kitted out to record live drums. At the moment I perform drum parts on my keyboards and I'm quite good at it - been doing it for as long as I have played drums lol. My firm conviction, when it comes to virtual drums, is that timing and 'feel' are more important for a realistic and 'human' drum part than a thousand different samles for every pad.

In my opinion, even really basic sampled drums can shine with that 'human' element behind them. And I can get this with keyboards, but it's a pain and often puts me off doing it!

So does anyone have a good, simple, workhorse midi/electric drumkit they could recommend, just for studio use? I can quite easily re-jig a midi part in the DAW so I don't care about loads of pads or the best onboard sounds. I'd prefer fewer, better-quality pads - something quite paired down (and easy to store!).

Possibly I could get this from quite a humble instrument, but the important thing for me is a few recommendations here. If anyone has road-tested a kit and know its capability and durability please let me know

I also thought the merits of sample quality vs performance might make for interesting discussion.
Thanks,
Tony

[The Elf]

I use a Yamaha DD65 and have used a DD55 in the past (the 65 has an additional pad over the 55).

I'm short of space here in the toadstool, so this device does as much as I need for getting some feel into my drum parts. It's crude, and it doesn't stop me getting my hands very dirty with programming the subtelties into my drum patterns, but it gets me 50% there - it lets me hit things in a way that I wouldn't on a keyboard.

If you go for a DD65 then make sure it's a new one - the early models had a fault with the hi-hat pedaling that renders it pants for the like of us trying to trigger drum samples.

I've been looking to pick up one of the Lidl store USB drum pad kits, but they tell me they can no longer suppy them. Pity - it would have been worth 50 quid to try it out. If anyone has a Lidl near them (and hopefully near-ish me!) that has them in store then please let me know!

[The Red Bladder]

Do what we do sometimes for recordings - get any old pads, or failing that bits of cardboard, some tins and a cooking pot, the neighbour's cats, a child, whatever's to hand and put piezo pickups on them (you can get them for pennies on ebay) and feed that into a cheap drum head and record the MIDI out into your DAW.

We use the actual mic feeds to trigger a dDrum head, but anything will do.

[chris...]

drum head

Of course, you mean electronic drum brain.

In drumming terms a head does not equal a brain.

( a statement which may be true on multiple levels... )

[The Red Bladder]

You are of course right - in drumming, a head does not have a brain!

You can also use small cheap speakers or headphone drivers as pick-ups.

[Barry Garlow]

We use a setup like what the one you want.

We started off using a kit that i made out of those plastic pizza plates with handles... (like this but that high impact plastic stuff... can't remember the word right now. Handy 'cos it has a handle with a hole in so can be mounted on stands. Covered with mouse mat rubber.



Paul White's article was a great help.

We ran that through an Alesis D4 and used the D4's sounds.

Over the last couple of years we have been lucky enough to have been gifted a Session Pro DD505 (not sure if they're still available) and we use that with EZDrummer.

Its a budget kit, but tbh its really very good and my drumming pal loves it. He did have to adjust his playing style a bit and some of the clamps have broken. But the actual pads and pedals are great and the brain is great too. Just have to do the odd running repair on clamps and odd bits and pieces.

Very good response and its impossible (for us anyway and anyone else who don't know in advance) to tell the difference.

These things are a lot cheaper than when we built the first kit, back then we were looking at fifteen hundred quid for something comparable and we just couldn't justify it. Great fun making the thing though and also very good. But you can get away for a few hundred now.

We used to often chat about putting his kit in and micing it up, but i think now, the only thing might be to get a better electronic kit for studio use. Its so much less of a pita.

[Thunderbass1]

I use a Roland td4kp with ez drummer. The kit can be folded away when not in use and will take a 2 zone mesh head for the snare if budget allows.

[maskedwarrior]

Woah. Hang on.... You can make them?? How do they respond dynamically?

And on what principle does it trigger the 'brain'? It must be the volume of the strike, that's created by the piezo pickup when you whack the board??

I learn some cool stuff here. I'm just the sort of person who'll make this crap rather than spend £400 Which is a curse rather than blessing in many ways lol

So I have to be pretty strict with myself.... are they 'worth' making?? ie. are they 'reliable'? ie. can they produce the same results one session to another? And what's their dynamic range like??

Also, some picures in the fella's article would have really helped. Does anyone have a photo or something they wouldn't mind sharing?

Interesting stuff

[Barry Garlow]

You can make them, yes. The Piezo sends a voltage depending on how hard you whack it and that voltage goes to a brain which interprets it. HiHat pedal is a momentary action switch.

How good? Depends on the materials, the drummer, everything really. Then there's the dynamics controls at the brain... loads of variables.

You can get a cheap kit like the one we're using from eBay for a hundred or so quid. Loads of people buy them for their kids who then lose interest.

Unless you really fancy the learning curve and all the research, tweaking, buying a brain and on and on - i'd get on google and ebay.

[4TrackMadman]

I got an Alesis DM8 Pro Kit for sale at about $600 ($800 with throne and double bass pedals). It has some really good sounds which is a bonus, and has usb-to-midi driver so you can record direct. Also quite realistic pads, with real drum heads on them. The module actually sounds great, so you can get started with that right away, most of the sounds are good enough to keep. I don't like the triggering on tom1 as it is too small and hard to hit and you need to work on the velocity response. Also the ride response is a bit iffy but for what it is it is a great kit:
http://www.alesis.com/dm8prokit

My buddy got the Yamaha starter kit for around the same price and the Alesis is a lot better, Yamaha kit is rubber pads and the kick drum is too small for any real work on it, also the sounds I feel are not as good, but it is also an option.

I'd probably recommend the Alesis DM6 or DM lite Kit in your case but any of the basic ones will do.

I resample some of the performances via EZDrummer but you can use your keyboard sounds if you want.

[iceman]

i got an alesis dm5 pro with the drum brain etc for less than £200 off ebay in decent condition took the midi out form it into my interface and used it in conjunction with superior drummer 2 no problems at all

[zenguitar]

I've been looking to pick up one of the Lidl store USB drum pad kits, but they tell me they can no longer suppy them. Pity - it would have been worth 50 quid to try it out. If anyone has a Lidl near them (and hopefully near-ish me!) that has them in store then please let me know!

In stock at the Tavistock, Devon, store as of Friday PM Elf.

Andy

[The Elf]

I have a chum in Paignton who's heading my way next week - time to pull in a favour methinks!

[The Elf]

Favour pulled and... there are now seven sets left at Lidl Paignton!

It seems the South-East is where all the supply has gone!

Thanks, Zen - tip-off much appreciated, mate. And a favor owed.

[zenguitar]

No probs Elf, it's always a pleasure to help someone out. And you offer plenty of help here on the forums, so what goes around comes around.

Andy

[Wonks]

Favour pulled and... there are now seven sets left at Lidl Paignton!

It seems the South-East is where all the supply has gone!

Or even more possibly, the south-west!

[The Elf]

Favour pulled and... there are now seven sets left at Lidl Paignton!

It seems the South-East is where all the supply has gone!

Or even more possibly, the south-west!

No wonder I always get lost going to Cornwall!

[mick.n]

Wrong way corrigan.

[Richard Graham]

I use a Yamaha DTXtreme IIs to trigger NI Session Drummer and Abbey Road drums. It's epic. Very durable, very configurable, very "real" to play and to listen to. I reckon you could get a set for less than £700 on eBay: very good for what were Yamaha's top of the line e-drums. The sounds from the brain are nothing to shout about, but the hardware is exceptional, and the brain has USB midi out (which goes to my MacBook for the Kontakt kits).

The problem I reckon you've got, is you want this kind of quality (which you won't get from chopping boards plugged into a cheap drum brain), but you also want it to be easy to put away. I don't know if this can be done! Certainly the DTXtreme is bulky and takes a while to assemble.

[IvanSC]

I used a proper Gibraltar steel drum rack for my td8 kit and it is SO much easier just to fold in the arms with pads still attached, drop the cymbal supports inside the frame tubes and chuck it all in the back of my car than the original plastic roland stuff. Cost? £60 used on ebay..

[The Elf]

I got my Lidl drum pads today!

Definitely worth 50 quid just for the joy of connecting up to a few good Kontakt drums kits and making some noise.

Essentially it's a toy, but it's good enough for a giggle and I wouldn't be too worried about trashing it after a few gigs.

Within five minutes of playing one of the pads failed, so I took it apart and re-soldered the piezo - fixed. Having seen the construction I can see it would make a good project starter/donor if you wanted to build your own pads. Essentially the MIDI/USB side of things has been done for you, though the implementation may be a bit crude.

Get it on your Christmas lists...

[mick.n]

Just remembered i have one of THESE from the mid 1990's.

[DoItAgain]

I got my Lidl drum pads today!

Having seen the construction I can see it would make a good project starter/donor if you wanted to build your own pads.

Any pics? I did a quick search and couldn't find a link online.

[The Elf]

I got my Lidl drum pads today!

Having seen the construction I can see it would make a good project starter/donor if you wanted to build your own pads.

Any pics? I did a quick search and couldn't find a link online.

[DoItAgain]

Thanks!

I seem to be able to imagine that rising out of the ocean after a seies of adventures involving (maverick) scientists exploring undersea crevasses.