How to keep my songs short

[Music in my mind 13]

So I'm making my second song but I've noticed that I tend to make them too long (5 minutes) and I don't think that's good. What should I do to keep them 3 or 4 minutes? Thank you!

[muzines]

Reduce things in the arrangement. Trim the excess fat. Does the bridge need to be 8 bars? Make it 6. Four bars on the run up to the chorus..? Try 3, or two. It will probably sound weird to you at first as you are used to more dead space, but as you get used to it, you'll find you'll be more aggressive at saying "Ok, that extra bar there is really doing nothing, let's lose that" and making your arrangements more efficient.

Particularly in chart/contemporary music - it kinda needs to be "all hooks, all the time"...

[zenguitar]

Don't worry about writing a 'song', no one in their right mind writes a song. You need to think about it differently. A song isn't the end, it is the means to an end.

A song is an expression of an idea, an emotion, or both. That's it, no more and no less. And a perfect song (no need to worry about being a good song or bad song) is one that expresses that idea and/or emotion as efficiently as possible.

Five minutes isn't too long for a song, they can be shorter or longer. So if you think your songs are too long, trust your instincts. Don't time them, just ask yourself a simple question, 'have I said what I wanted to say as efficiently and effectively as I possibly can'. My gut instinct is that you know that you can express yourself better and that's why you doubt yourself, otherwise you would be happy with 5 minute songs

Know what you want to say, mean it, and say it clearly and concisely. That's a song.

Andy

[alexis]

So I'm making my second song but I've noticed that I tend to make them too long (5 minutes) and I don't think that's good. What should I do to keep them 3 or 4 minutes? Thank you!

I have the same problem, songs that are 4-5 min long, when I want them about a minute or two shorter.

I'll often have a verse I can sacrifice that was "more clever than good", in the sense of telling the story. I just remember my old English Composition teacher, who used to thrash us if we could not justify every single word in every single paragraph, etc. What is the main idea to get across ... does THIS word/phrase/line definitely make the song better in that respect ... NO??? ... out it goes!

Also, I find that instrumental solos can almost always be cut in half ... there is no law that they need to mirror an entire verse. I've actually gotten to the point where I'm bored if they don't leave the structure of the verse half-way through/early.

Just my 2c ...

[BJG145]

A lot of songs drone on too long, and it's definitely worth looking at a five minute track and thinking: do I need all this...? In most cases, they simply have too many verses. Long uneventful intros are also a no-no.

[Bob Bickerton]

I once had memorised 'The Death of Young Andrew', which at 22 verses was a little on the long side. But it's all to do with the story you're telling and how interesting it is and what is expected in the genre you're writing in.

Bob

[The Elf]

Zen is talking my language. Don't worry about how long the song is, just concern yourself with whether you are managing to convey your message. This idea that a song *has* to be 4 minutes is such a dull, miserable concept - it leads to the kind of ditch water I hear if I ever accidentally tune into a local commercial radio station - boring, boring, boring!

[ConcertinaChap]

I don't write songs myself but from living with a composer and songwriter I know what she says, and that is as the writer you can be too close to the song to view it dispassionately. So she'll sing it to other people frequently as she develops it to get feedback. I get called on a lot to provide this service by reason of being near at hand.

So find yourself something you trust to act as a reviewer. Don't feel you have to take their suggestions but they WILL hear the song differently from you.

CC

[Exalted Wombat]

And then there are introductions... Is the accompaniment pattern REALLY interesting enough to be featured for a full 16 bars?

But we need to hear your songs in order to make helpful comments. Maybe their length is just fine. Maybe one minute would be too much

[Mixedup]

Don't listen to all these proggers and hippies If a pop or rock track is longer than 3.5-4mins then you need to ask yourself "why?". Then work harder on the writing (along the lines Alexis said), think about the number of measures and relevance/importance of the various sections, and consider whether what used to be called a radio edit — i.e. separate 'single' and 'album' versions might be desirable. At the very least, make sure you go through that process: if, after that, you come to the conclusion that your track was born to be the next Freebird or Blue Monday dance remix or whatever, then it will probably be all the better for having worked so damned hard to refine it... even if it ends up lasting over 14 minutes!

[The Red Bladder]

What should I do to keep them 3 or 4 minutes? Thank you!

Remember Mike Campbell's advice - "Please don't bore us, just get to the chorus!"

Let's look at the Tailor Swift's 'Shake it off!' Three basic melody lines that only ever last four bars each at any one time, plus a couple of tuneful rap melody lines. On the face of it, almost doggerel. But these simple tunes that range just over one octave are interspersed with wonderfully crafted counterpoints and hooks that keep on changing to give the listener always something new to hear. Three minutes and thirty seconds of sheer brilliance!

And whilst we are on the subject of bridges, yes, the song has bridges - the first one comes in after just two verses and is just four handclaps - that's it! Depending on how you count the time, one bar or less and boom! We're into the chorus!

And no bridge out of the chorus. Straight into the verses and lots of 'sonic space' on the next verse, just lead v. and that terrific sax hook, then drums and then b.v. But we go back to the second melody line for just four breathless bars and then those four handclaps again and back to the chorus with full instrumentation. The song is just over two minutes 'old' and we're off into the middle eight rap break.

Again, a sonic hook, with the rap slightly distorted. One long note from L.V. and that's all the bridge we get, as we go back into the chorus. Two repeats and then it's just 'Shake it off!' over and over again and then suddenly stop.

Breathless brilliance and a master class in how to write a pop song!

All successful song-smiths start out playing covers. Jagger-Richards, Lennon & McCartney, Tom Petty, all started out getting basic song structure hammered into their brains by playing Chuck Berry or Cole Porter tunes. In reality, 'Shake it off!' is just another Chuck Berry tune, but instead of a guitar break middle eight, it's got a rap middle eight.

And at 160 bpm, it's whole lot faster!

Good luck - and keep on rocking!

[Scramble]

Well, I love long prog songs*, but unless you write as well as the prog greats then the odds are that 5 minutes is too long. There are a lot of average songs around these days (at the lower band level) that are stretched out to 5 minutes, and it just drums into the listener how banal the writing is, and how plodding the arrangement and recording is, and do we really want to hear that same dull verse one more time?

Of course your songs will hopefully be much better than that, but to be 5 minutes they'd better be, because for a pop song that wants an audience to be that long it has to be packed full of lots of brilliant stuff. If they're only that long because you're repeating sections a lot then probably -- can't say for sure without hearing them -- it needs to be cut down, by repeating less. And it still probably needs a lot more interesting bits in it, as Red Bladder says.

* The good ones, that is. But I hear a lot of long and mediocre prog songs these days, and a long and mediocre prog song is much worse than a short and mediocre prog song.

[Kev Adams]

You have to "murder your darlings".

(See Sir Arthur Quiller- Couch)

[Music in my mind 13]

Thank you so so much yall I found so much useful advice here. Special thanks to the ones who wished me luck

[Music in my mind 13]

What should I do to keep them 3 or 4 minutes? Thank you!

Remember Mike Campbell's advice - "Please don't bore us, just get to the chorus!"

Let's look at the Tailor Swift's 'Shake it off!' Three basic melody lines that only ever last four bars each at any one time, plus a couple of tuneful rap melody lines. On the face of it, almost doggerel. But these simple tunes that range just over one octave are interspersed with wonderfully crafted counterpoints and hooks that keep on changing to give the listener always something new to hear. Three minutes and thirty seconds of sheer brilliance!

And whilst we are on the subject of bridges, yes, the song has bridges - the first one comes in after just two verses and is just four handclaps - that's it! Depending on how you count the time, one bar or less and boom! We're into the chorus!

And no bridge out of the chorus. Straight into the verses and lots of 'sonic space' on the next verse, just lead v. and that terrific sax hook, then drums and then b.v. But we go back to the second melody line for just four breathless bars and then those four handclaps again and back to the chorus with full instrumentation. The song is just over two minutes 'old' and we're off into the middle eight rap break.

Again, a sonic hook, with the rap slightly distorted. One long note from L.V. and that's all the bridge we get, as we go back into the chorus. Two repeats and then it's just 'Shake it off!' over and over again and then suddenly stop.

Breathless brilliance and a master class in how to write a pop song!

All successful song-smiths start out playing covers. Jagger-Richards, Lennon & McCartney, Tom Petty, all started out getting basic song structure hammered into their brains by playing Chuck Berry or Cole Porter tunes. In reality, 'Shake it off!' is just another Chuck Berry tune, but instead of a guitar break middle eight, it's got a rap middle eight.

And at 160 bpm, it's whole lot faster!

Good luck - and keep on rocking!

Yay! Loved your comment about shake it off. Taylor Swift is actually my favorite artist I have a piano cover of shake it off. If you want you can check it on my youtube channel (see my signature)