Ribbon Mic Newbie

[Mike Stranks]

Simple question...

... those who've met me know I've got a very 'light' voice... (and a West-Country accent, but that's another story...)

I'm wondering about getting a ribbon mic for V/Os and podcasts etc. I have a typical broadcast config with the mic on an anglepoise. Current condenser mic is capsule-down...

... I know you have to store ribbon mics vertically to avoid sag. Can you use them vertically but upside-down - if you see what I mean?

(The room is good-ish so I have no worries about the fig-8 pattern.)

[Hugh Robjohns]

Yes. Sag is really only a issue with the longest ribbons when stored long-term horizontally, anyway, but look at pictures of the old BBC World Service studios and you'll see more STC4038s upside down than the right way up! So, you won't have any issues with suspension from an angle poise.

H

[Jack Ruston]

You can.

I wonder whether a ribbon is the right thing for VO for a couple of reasons...

1. Typically that lower level output is going to need more preamp gain, and hence noise. Obviously some active designs avoid this.

2. They typically exhibit a lot of proximity effect and I don't know if that will suit the very close mic'd nature of the application, especially when combined with a darker top end to start with.

3. As you've pointed out, they're going to be relatively roomy with that rear lobe, which is more or less the opposite of what you'd normally want. Although it might allow good rejection of eg computer noise with the deep side null.

Do you need something urgently? I can post you an RE20 tomorrow if you're stuck.

J

[Mike Stranks]

Thanks both.

Kinda what I thought from the laws of physics, but thought it best to be sure.

Thanks for the offer Jack. I actually have a range of perfectly satisfactory condensers (and dynamics) but am thinking of adding a ribbon to the armoury just for a different flavour on some sources. I then got to wondering about using it for V/Os as my voice needs all the proximity effect and 'darkness' it can get!

(and the one I'm considering is active... I'm not saying what or where as there's a risk that a crowd will form and I'll be left at the back with 'sorry sir; we've just sold the last one' )

[ConcertinaChap]

I could lend you my Sontronics Sigma to try out if you like, Mike. That's as dark as may be (I usually use with women who sing in the head voice) and it's an active ribbon too.

CC

[ronmac]

Bruce Williams, the podcaster, has been using a ribbon mic for his podcasts the last couple of years. He went into a bit of depth about his setup the last couple of episodes on his Nothing to Fear podcast. You could search that out and have a listen to how he sounds in his very moderately treated home studio.

[Hugh Robjohns]

I wonder whether a ribbon is the right thing for VO for a couple of reasons...

All fair points, Jack, but equally, they are all relatively easily surmountable if the desire is there. After all, the World Service managed to use the very low output 4038 for voice over work for a good many years without excessive noise, proximity effects or room sound. Yes, it takes a decent preamp, mic technique, and acoustic treatment, but none of that is beyond the talents and means of Mike, I'm quite sure.

H

[Bob Bickerton]

Didn't some fellah recently tempt you into buying an M201? Oddly enough I'm using mine for a close miked situation just now and the more I use it the more I like it. It does have quite a proximity effect though but then that is what you're looking for.

Just thinking.......

Bob

[Mike Stranks]

Didn't some fellah recently tempt you into buying an M201? Oddly enough I'm using mine for a close miked situation just now and the more I use it the more I like it. It does have quite a proximity effect though but then that is what you're looking for.

Just thinking.......

Bob

Yup! You are right... it was some fellah from New Zealand who has a beard.

And I've not regretted it for a second... and do use it for my own voice work. BUT I've got MAS again and am trying to justify to myself why I REALLY need that mic...

[Mike Stranks]

Hmmm.... should have done a bit more research before posting...

SEE HERE

... and irrespective of the mic, if I could consistently work with artists of this calibre and produce recordings like this I'd be a very, very happy man...

[Bob Bickerton]

Only listened on iPad speakers but sounds good. Could be Rode's first professional microphone? Interesting to see positioning of vocal mic and use of nulls to attenuate hammer sound?

Bob

[Jack Ruston]

Oh you mean 'The finest ribbon mic in the world'...It should be good then.

J

[Tim Gillett]

Yes, lovely performance.

Interesting YT comment by one Brian Cullen: "I suppose that's what makes a good mic though, it's not really there."

[Wonks]

I could sell you one of those.

[Hugh Robjohns]

Interesting to see positioning of vocal mic and use of nulls to attenuate hammer sound?

Yes... you could be fooled into thinking someone had actually thought about intelligent ribbon mic placement (and I approve of the forehead-level position, too)... but then I saw how the Piano ribbon mics had been placed. If the vocal mic was angled to minimise hammer noise, why fail to take similar advantage in minimising vocal pick-up on the piano mics?

On the upside, it is a lovely performance, though.

H

[Tim Gillett]

I could sell you one of those.

Done. I'll pay $799 which is not really there either...Transparent in fact, like a good mic

[Bob Bickerton]

Interesting to see positioning of vocal mic and use of nulls to attenuate hammer sound?

Yes... you could be fooled into thinking someone had actually thought about intelligent ribbon mic placement (and I approve of the forehead-level position, too)... but then I saw how the Piano ribbon mics had been placed. If the vocal mic was angled to minimise hammer noise, why fail to take similar advantage in minimising vocal pick-up on the piano mics?

On the upside, it is a lovely performance, though.

H

Yes, that occurred to me too. Haven't had a good listen yet, but was really more curious as to how the piano sounds rather than the vocals.

Bob

[Exalted Wombat]

Hmmm.... should have done a bit more research before posting...

SEE HERE

... and irrespective of the mic, if I could consistently work with artists of this calibre and produce recordings like this I'd be a very, very happy man...

High production values, minimal musical content. Just my opinion.

[Mike Stranks]

Hmmm.... should have done a bit more research before posting...

SEE HERE

... and irrespective of the mic, if I could consistently work with artists of this calibre and produce recordings like this I'd be a very, very happy man...

High production values, minimal musical content. Just my opinion.

Fair enough. But maybe it was meant to be minimal.

Why not stick one of your pieces up here for us to comment...?

[Exalted Wombat]

Hmmm.... should have done a bit more research before posting...

SEE HERE

... and irrespective of the mic, if I could consistently work with artists of this calibre and produce recordings like this I'd be a very, very happy man...

High production values, minimal musical content. Just my opinion.

Fair enough. But maybe it was meant to be minimal.

Why not stick one of your pieces up here for us to comment...?

Give me that singer and that piano, it would be something by Gershwin, Cole Porter, not by me!

[artzmusic]

Hello Mike, I don't pretend to put myself on your skill level but just to share...I am even today recording a V/O with a GA Project ribbon. Using the Cloudlifter. My project studio is well treated and am using a reflection filter also to minimize strays from the backside. I know this setup may not hold up to technical scrutiny but it does well for the corporate clientele I serve. It does provide more warmth than the AKG large diaphragm condenser I have. So that's my main criteria. So I'm getting the best use of what I have on hand. The video involves a revolutionary new process for leather restoration which will capture the attention foermost and if done right won't attract attention to the vocal. rather the vocal will keep attention fixed on the subject matter. Noise floor is no problem as the A/C fan goes off when recording and the computer is on the other side of the wall. In addition, there will be a low level of music throughout.

For kicks you could set up everything the night before and then lay down the V/O with deep "morning voice".

Thanks for posting a link to that video. This kind of transparent performance is difficult to pull off and attests to the skill of the performer and engineers as well as quality of the mic and piano. Wonderful!

Rick

[ef37a]

Re ribbon sensitivity.
When SoS published their microphone guide a while ago, I was struck by the fact that most of the ribbons listed were in fact AS sensitive, some more so, than most dynamics. In fact all but the Coles beat the SM7b!

When I asked Hugh about this he pointed out that ribbons tended to be used at 2,3 or more times the distance from a source than dynamics ever are and thus give a low output.
Up close and personal they should be fine.

Dave.

[Hugh Robjohns]

Up close and personal they should be fine.

Although there will be massive proximity effect (bass tip-up), of course, (unless the mic is specifically balanced for very close working, like the AEA R92, or Coles 4104 lip-ribbon), because ribbons are pure pressure-gradient devices.

H

[Bob Bickerton]

.......and am using a reflection filter also to minimize strays from the backside. Rick

That sounds painful, a simple cork should do it ..........

Bob

[Wonks]