Chinese-made = cheap 'n' nasty. Racist?

[Evie McCreevie]

I'm getting sick of seeing the slightly racist phrase "cheap Chinese-made" in this forum, and in SOS magazine itself. Pound for pound, Chinese-made is as good - if not better - than anything from the West.

Just because the guy in the factory eats noodles and gets paid a fraction of his burger-munching US equivalent, doesn't mean he takes any more or less of a pride in his job.

I have a good few Chinese-made items in my studio which are all superb - certainly better than any Western equivalent at the price.

Some things are cheap'n'nasty, and some of them may be made in China. But you can also buy shoddy goods from the US, UK and Europe - (probably at a higher price).

You can get crap from anywhere - let's not distort the situation with judgements about where and by whom it's made.

[Mowens800]

Just because the guy in the factory eats noodles and gets paid a fraction of his burger-munching US equivalent, doesn't mean he takes any more or less of a pride in his job.

Isn't the above more racist than "cheap, Chinese made"

If something is of a low price and made in the china then the above phrase is actually fact. Whereas your comments make mockery of potential stereotypes.

[Scope]

I hear you.

It used to be "jerry built",
Until you bought a BMW or Mercedes and compared it to a British car !!!

Then it was "Jap- crap",
Until you bought a (cheaper) reliable car or TV that was Japanese made.
Companies like Sony brought unheard of quality and prices to the masses.

I reckon it is all based on fear and ignorance, fear of the competition !
and ignorance as to how it can be bettered.

Welcome to the market economy.....

[Keith_in_AZ]

I would like for SOS to state where the product was produced in this review. I take this into account when making purchasing selections. I try to consider the social consequences of what I purchase, although I am not always successful.

[A Non O Miss]

On Chinese based companies I would be lying if I said I wasn't a little concerned with quality.

However I feel a lot safer if it is a North American or European based company choosing to manufacture in China. 2 very different scenarios. Nothing personal but the Chinese are not the most ethical business people, however the country still allows for some very inexpensive manufacturing. Take a US company manufacturing in the US, union workers, paying $30/hour to their employees for 8 hour shifts with all their breaks. That is a hell of a lot more of a cost that has to go into the price of the product than if Chinese workers making cents per day working 14 hour shifts were putting it together. There is no guarantee that the US workers are more committed to doing a good job then there Chinese counterparts. Quite the contrary really, there are so many people in China that you are considered lucky to have a job like that so most of them do everything they can to maintain it. Union on the other hand, they pretty much do as little as possible.

Because of this I almost prefer the Chinese manufactured gear from a reputable company as it allows them to, hopefully, include more components thus giving you more bang for your buck. Chances are they just pocket the extra loot but hey you gotta be optimistic sometimes.

[Kwackman]

I'm probably a racist because in my perfect world....

my car would be German
my food would be Italian
my guitar would be American
my bike would be Japanese
my girl would be French
my speakers would be British
my accountant would be Swiss

[Steve Hill]

Not racist, but possibly a tad elitist..."our" stuff is better, but you have to be willing to pay a premium.

I remember the 1960s (sadly) when toys "Made In Hong Kong" were cheap and nasty and undesirable. These guys play a long game. And good on 'em.

Globalisation means exploiting competetive advantage where you find it. If your advantage is cheap labour, use it. China is doing fine, by its own lights. It does not become any of us to say otherwise - certainly not whilst buying their products.

I (strongly) fear that all of this will result in the bankruptcy of (say) at least one of the major Western mic manufacturers. But as a paid-up member of democratic capitalism, I can't object.

[SevenIndustries]

I'm probably a racist because in my perfect world....

my car would be German
my food would be Italian
my guitar would be American
my bike would be Japanese
my girl would be French
my speakers would be British
my accountant would be Swiss

and your French wife wears South African diamonds?

[Dave B]

Sorry, but at the moment China is still catching up with the mainline European countries in quality control. The build quality is as much determined by the component cost as than the labour cost, and that also factors into why Chinese-made gear is cheaper. Look at Rode - they moved their manufacturing from China to Oz to maintain quality control standards.

At the moment, 'Chinese' is a synonym for low-cost, low-quality with a limited lifespan although that is already starting to change. Companies like sE seem to twig that they need to up their game. It's just the way it goes. If I advised someone to get a lot of 'expensive German mics', would you still consider that racist?

Give it another few decades and your question will no doubt be : 'African-made = cheap n nasty. Racist?'

[Yago]

Thought I just saw this on GearSlutz ... is that a cross post ?

[John Willett]

I'm probably a racist because in my perfect world....

my car would be German
my food would be Italian
my guitar would be American
my bike would be Japanese
my girl would be French
my speakers would be British
my accountant would be Swiss

BUT:

your car is French
your food is British
your guitar is Japanese
your bike is Swiss
your girl is American
your speakers are German
your accountant is Italian

[grahawk]

Cheap Chinese made is often just a statement of fact. I have an Ashton guitar. It's cheap and Chinese made. However that doesn't mean it's not any good.

[Steve Hill]

Sorry, but at the moment China is still catching up with the mainline European countries in quality control.

Yes and no. In some areas I would definitely say "caught up". I'd put SE mics up against Rodes any day. It's got to be ten years or something since Rode moved production to Oz. Conversely, huge quantities of say Mackie products are built in China. There's no rocket science to quality control. You either choose to do it or you don't. When you do, "being foreign" does not automatically mean it does not work out so well.

Further, in an era where mainstream studios are closing down but bedroom studios are becoming ubiquitous, a hell of a lot of people are going to say they'd rather take the chance on a bit of inconsistency if they are getting a decent LDC mic for £150 instead of £1,500.

I bought one of my U47 FETs from Capital Radio. An accountant had worked out how much they'd save if they moved over to (I think) Audio Technica 4033s. How many complaints from disgruntled listeners do you think that move generated?

If you take a non-music field like toys (including quite techy ones) China pretty much is now the workshop of the world. Household names like Mattel, Hornby etc simply don't manufacture anywhere else.

[Aural Reject]

Household names like Mattel, Hornby etc simply don't manufacture anywhere else.

....and get lead based paint for their troubles.

[Teleute]

....and get lead based paint for their troubles.

Well there in lies a bit of PR on the part of Matel. What they failed to point out is that the Factory in China would have to ok every single part of production with Matels quality controllers first. Meaning there was lead based paint in the product because Matel’s quality controllers said it was ok to use. The quality controllers from Matel would be at the factory in china analysing every stage of the construction. They didn't do their checks properly, the Chinese factory is not to blame Matel were entirely at fault.

I know this because I have a mate who spent a year in china doing just that for his company, had some real horror stories about the factory work conditions but has said again and again, they make crap because we ask them to make crap, because we’re only willing to pay for crap, because western companies are happy to exploit the low standards China allows and because western consumers are happy to exploit Chinese workers.

The cause of the problem is us wanting to pay £30 for a DVD player instead of £500. Their just doing what we ask and then make a convenient scape goat when it all come back to bite us.

[Shingles]

Sorry, but at the moment China is still catching up with the mainline European countries in quality control.

No.
You get your products manufactured in China - you get what you pay for. CHina is just as capable of excellent quality gear as anywhere else in the world. It's just that companies go to China wanting lower cost. Stuff manufactured for the internal, chinese market can be a whole lot better.

[matt keen]

....and get lead based paint for their troubles.

The cause of the problem is us wanting to pay £30 for a DVD player instead of £500. Their just doing what we ask and then make a convenient scape goat when it all come back to bite us.

This is the truth

And yes we are elitist and probably a hint racist about the way we express that.

[Shambolic Charm]

Cheap Chinese made is often just a statement of fact. I have an Ashton guitar. It's cheap and Chinese made. However that doesn't mean it's not any good.

Got one of those Ashtons myself- lovely guitar.
spoke to a guy who had come back from china working for the Co-op. He said a lot of factories over there have gone virtually all machine and only have a few workers on site.

[Aural Reject]

....and get lead based paint for their troubles.

Well there in lies a bit of PR on the part of Matel. What they failed to point out is that the Factory in China would have to ok every single part of production with Matels quality controllers first. Meaning there was lead based paint in the product because Matel’s quality controllers said it was ok to use. The quality controllers from Matel would be at the factory in china analysing every stage of the construction. They didn't do their checks properly, the Chinese factory is not to blame Matel were entirely at fault.

I know this because I have a mate who spent a year in china doing just that for his company, had some real horror stories about the factory work conditions but has said again and again, they make crap because we ask them to make crap, because we’re only willing to pay for crap, because western companies are happy to exploit the low standards China allows and because western consumers are happy to exploit Chinese workers.

The cause of the problem is us wanting to pay £30 for a DVD player instead of £500. Their just doing what we ask and then make a convenient scape goat when it all come back to bite us.

I also know of circumstances whereby superficially the 'standards' are set by the outsourcing company for them to be completely ignored with manufactured products being noncompliant or completely the wrong thing.

It's horses for courses - you can't hit everyone with a broad brush really (even though I did with my earlier post) - some things will be OK, others won't, and individual products / companies and circumstances will all be different.

Edit: And that's despite the contract being for many millions.

[Mike Craig]

I think we are all a bit too thin-skinned these days.
People use the words "racist" and "racism" far too often.

I work with lots of people from different cultures and societies and we are always taking the piss out of each other - but there is no malicious intent.

There is no hate or loathing towards the individual - that is the difference, that's why it's not racism.

Being a Scottish Gentleman living in Norfolk, I get called "pasty porridge-wog", almost on a weekly basis. However, I am always quick to retort with something along the lines of "Get a sixth finger sewn on those gloves - swamp dweller".

What REALLY annoys me, is when someone has the nerve to call someone "racist" without establishing whether that individual actually is actually a racist. I can't think of anything more offensive than being labelled a racist (apart from being the victim of genuine racism.)

Don't get me wrong, racism disgusts me, but calling someone "noodle eating" or saying that something is cheap because it's chinese is not racism - it's not even close.

[Jack Ruston]

I dont think this is racism...it may be misguided, but the reason people say this is not because the hate the Chinese people and want to insult their work as a result, but because quality control has traditionally been a problem with chinese manufacture and in some instances it still is.

'Cheap, Nasty and Chinese' are factual descriptors of the product if you like. Now if they said 'Cheap products from the nasty chinese' we'd be getting into different territory, because it would indicate an attitude about the Chinese people held by the poster.

My old man gets his products made in China. At the factory which he uses the electricians are amazing and very fast, but there is a problem with the quality control on the casings. Overall he finds it far more economical to manufacture there than anywhere in Western Europe of course.

J

[Džoni]

I don't think that Chinese people are inherently incapable of making a quality product -- far from it.

I am, however, apprehensive of products made in China, or at least ones where I need to count on the product having a long life.

So am I being racist? No. My reasoning is as follows: if a Western company decides to manufacture a good in China, it means that they're cutting costs (not a crazy measure to take, I'll admit), which in turn leads me to wonder what else they're saving money on. Are they using cheap, inferior capacitors? Also, I hardly expect someone being paid US$1 a day, of whichever nationality, to have the motivation to be careful with assembly -- will the soldering be as carefully done as if the guy had a respectable salary?

Maybe, maybe not. It's that uncertainty that worries me. Sure, you get Chinese-made products that are decent and will last as long as if they were manufactured elsewhere, but I think that some security is relinquished. I could, of course, be wrong here, but I have a feeling that, statistically speaking, you're more likely to get a dud product if it's made in China.

As an aside, manufacturers are also aware of the stigma attached to having a product "Made in China". For example, I had a look at PreSonus' newly-released Audiobox the other day, and on it, it says "Made in PRC". Easy enough to figure out, but it gave me the impression that PreSonus themselves weren't happy to be getting this thing manufactured in China. In this case, this alone wouldn't prevent me from buying the item, because it's not something I'd need to last me 20 years.

[Kristafon]

Yes, lets start pulling out the racist card. Its just so easy to do with maximum effect isnt it.

[Evie McCreevie]

... "cheap, Chinese made"

If something is of a low price and made in the china then the above phrase is actually fact...

True. But the implication is that it is inferior, as in cheap'n'nasty.

My point is that this stuff may be low cost, but pro rata the actual quality is good.

Similarly, 'expensive German-made' literally means 'made in Germany at a high price' - but implies 'excellent quality'.
Which is not always the case, as many Mercedes owners will testify.

[Tui]

You know where hell is..? It's where the Brits make your food, the Italians guard your car, and the Germans tell all the jokes.

Me, racist? Naaaaa...