MD441 love on the new PJ Harvey album

[Guest]

A recent thread saw much love for enduring high-performance dynamics. The latest issue of Uncut has a few lush studio shots of Polly Harvey recording. The most conspicuous elements in the piccies other than the remarkable PJ is the MD441. Front and centre being used on sax, and interestingly in a pairing with what looks like a Sontronics Aria. SoS is full of people recommending use of a suitably trashy dynamic to lend grit to an LDC. Elbow opting for a 58, Green Day a M201 (not very trashy, mind). But the 441 is an interesting choice - regularly praised for its sophisticated 'condenser-like' sound. I wonder how the 441 was used? A subtle mid-lift when PJ moved into head voice?. And another thing. SoS - please please please try and get John Parrish to do an interview. Very interesting take on production, especially guitar textures.

[awjoe]

And another thing. SoS - please please please try and get John Parrish to do an interview. Very interesting take on production, especially guitar textures.

Good idea.

[The Elf]

The MD441 is easily one of my favourite mic's. One day I'm going to buy one that isn't so battered as my current one. 'Smooth' is a word I'd attribute to it.

[Sam Inglis]

I'm not sure quite where the idea comes from that moving-coil mics are inherently trashy. Really good ones like the 441, M201, AKG D224 and so on are excellent mics that are capable of making very hi-fi recordings, and I'd rather have one of those than most cheap capacitor mics. I wouldn't describe an SM58 as trashy either (unless you're talking about how the drum spill sounds!).

[Hugh Robjohns]

Really good ones like the 441, M201, AKG D224 and so on are excellent mics that are capable of making very hi-fi recordings, and I'd rather have one of those than most cheap capacitor mics.

Hear! Hear!

H

[Guest]

Really good ones like the 441, M201, AKG D224 and so on are excellent mics that are capable of making very hi-fi recordings, and I'd rather have one of those than most cheap capacitor mics.

Hear! Hear!

H

And I readily agree. It was SoS which got me interested in classic dynamics and I've built up a decent selection. My point was subtle - After loads of mic shoot outs with the likes of the 421 delivering a more likeable result than many a condenser, seeing PJ and her Aria/441 combo gave me a 'Duh' moment...no need to agonise over 441 or 421 or 102 or 4033...no law against recording two vocal mics together (phase excepted)

[Sam Inglis]

Ah, I see. I quite often put up two mics for a vocalist, just so as there's a safety net in case one of them clips or goes wrong for some reason. I've never actually used both of them in the mix, though I have heard about a few engineers who swear by it.

[Enmore Audio]

It's easy to assume that we should always reach for the large-diaphragm condensers when recording vocals, but I really love working with specific dynamics of late. The Shure SM7 is becoming a real vocal "go to" for me (of course, this isn't a new idea), but it is refreshing that more and more engineers are rediscovering high quality dynamics.

I'm yet to try the MD 441. Can't wait though. Worth the purchase on looks alone!

[Tim Gillett]

Interesting though that the MD441 is advertised as a dynamic sounding as close as possible to a condenser...

[Tomás Mulcahy]

Interesting though that the MD441 is advertised as a dynamic sounding as close as possible to a condenser...

That's what happens when the marketing department takes over from the engineering department. If perpetuating a myth is what it takes to sell a mic, so be it!

[Random Guitarist]

In my view the 441 sounds better than a great many condensers. Also you can EQ the top end without harsh distortions becoming apparent as they do in a lot of budget condenser mics.

I think one 'mind-set' problem is that there is a perception of condenser = expensive and dynamic = cheap, with an associated quality, and so people have a reluctance to pay a lot of money for a dynamic when it's in condenser price territory. (On the other hand I was surprised to see that a new 441 can be had for £550 these days, a fair price for an excellent mic)

[Tim Gillett]

Interesting though that the MD441 is advertised as a dynamic sounding as close as possible to a condenser...

That's what happens when the marketing department takes over from the engineering department. If perpetuating a myth is what it takes to sell a mic, so be it!

I'm not knocking the 441 at all. It's one of the dynamic mic legends, perhaps the best fidelity dynamic ever made, at least for a single transducer type. With a good low noise preamp it's very useable.

But AFAIK an SDC can be made with more fidelity, excepting very high SPL's,
and companies can make both types. They get the money no matter what mic type they sell!

BTW I own an MD441. Needed a bit of work but now looks and works great.

Tim

[Tomás Mulcahy]

"More fidelity" is simply too vague. All transducer types, especially the condenser, have inherent distortions of different kinds. The trick is to pick the right compromise for the task at hand.

[Tim Gillett]

Tomas, I would happily use either mic for recording all sorts of voices and instruments. Sorry.

[Tomás Mulcahy]

Can't say I'd be perfectly happy with such an acedemic exercise as using only one model of mic, but I wouldn't complain about a 441 ! I'm just wary of the "condenser mic is perfect" myth. For example the Coles 4038 (ribbon transducer) is unbeatable for tambourine, because it has a better transient response than any condenser. What you get actually sounds like a real tambourine, not that harsh harmonically messy crap that a condenser does. With its proximity effect, it's beautiful for cello, and very useful on guitar cabs as well. But then a U87 beats the pants off it for voice work. Hence- tool for the job.

[Tim Gillett]

With its proximity effect, (the Coles) is beautiful for cello, and very useful on guitar cabs as well. But then a U87 beats the pants off it for voice work. Hence- tool for the job.

Why does the U87 beat the pants off the Coles for vocal work?

[Tomás Mulcahy]

Try it and you'll see. And yes, I know it was a standard voice mic at the BBC in times past.

[Hugh Robjohns]

....I know it was a standard voice mic at the BBC in times past.

Only for the World Service in the last 20-30 years. BH tended to favour M201s, C414s and U87s. And it was a favourite there for spoken voice, not sung vocals.

H

[Sam Inglis]

I was interviewed at the BBC Radio Cambridgeshire studio a few years back, and slightly to my surprise, they used a 4038. It sounded pretty good as far as I could tell, but I wasn't offered a choice.

[Tim Gillett]

I used to use a Reslo ribbon. I still have the recordings we made in the early 80's. Combination of speaking and singing.
On speaking it was beautiful, but once she started singing, it sounded like cr_p. Yes definitely a speaking mic only.

[Hugh Robjohns]

I was interviewed at the BBC Radio Cambridgeshire studio a few years back, and slightly to my surprise, they used a 4038. It sounded pretty good as far as I could tell, but I wasn't offered a choice.

It's a lovely mic. I think they were the standard issue when the English Region local radio stations were first set up as they all seem to have them and many still use them... But not so much for main presenter mics any more (sadly).

[Mike Stranks]

I was interviewed at the BBC Radio Cambridgeshire studio a few years back, and slightly to my surprise, they used a 4038. It sounded pretty good as far as I could tell, but I wasn't offered a choice.

It's a lovely mic. I think they were the standard issue when the English Region local radio stations were first set up as they all seem to have them and many still use them... But not so much for main presenter mics any more (sadly).

Back in the 70s we certainly had one in the 'talks' studio at Radio Bristol... main presenter mic in those days was an AKG 202. (We had one 'live' control-desk; the end and beginning of programmes was always interesting as we 'hot-swapped'!)

I don't recall ever seeing one at Radio Oxford - although there were still a couple of 202s in evidence. Main presenter mics in both cubicles (BBC-speak for control room/self-op studio) were 201s but upgraded about 10 years ago to AT4040s.

[Drew Stephenson]

Had a play with a reconditioned one when I was looking for a ribbon a year ago or so and I thought it was lovely. Worked well for my voice sung or spoken but it was just too far out of my budget.

[Enmore Audio]

Yet to own one of these, but definitely on the list...

I'm a huge fan of high quality dynamics especially of vocals. I tracked a rapper recently who was a tad skeptical about using an SM7 because he'd mainly been using a lower quality condenser at home. By the end of the session, I thought he was going to steal my mic.

And the 441 just looks the business too