Sonarworks Reference 3 speaker calibration - WOW!!!

[stormymondays]

I just need to share this. I've had the most amazing results calibrating my speakers with Sonarworks Reference 3.

I have a professionally designed and treated room, and my monitors are Yamaha H8S (good, but the weak link in the studio right now). The "before" curve was reasonably flat from the low mids upwards, with a few +3 spots. The low end had some -6 spots, and in one speaker, -10. The "after" curve is almost ruler-flat.

The listening test was IMPRESSIVE. Listening to Sting's "All Four Seasons" (recommended by Mike Senior in his book), I can hear every bass note of every bass line at the same intensity. It almost feels like I can hear the actual attack of the fingers against the string. Absolutely amazing.

I can't wait to make a few changes in the room and test again. My speaker stands are flimsy and I'm getting some custom made wooden ones, filled with sand. I also ordered Primacoustic Recoil Stabilizers for them.

[Martin Walker]

I just need to share this. I've had the most amazing results calibrating my speakers with Sonarworks Reference 3.

The "after" curve is almost ruler-flat.

Excellent news!

My only thought is that you are presumably referring to the frequency response at the listening position, as I suspect it highly unlikely that it will be flat as that throughout the studio, however good the Sonarworks package is (and I've heard very good reports from elsewhere).

Martin

[stormymondays]

Yes, that the resulting calibration for the listening position is great. However, I've also found a very noticeable widening of the sweet spot. i.e. standing up next to the studio chair, the improvements is very apparent too.

I haven't listened from the back of the room, but since this is an all-in-one studio (no separate control room), there's no listening from the back

[Martin Walker]

Hi again stormymondays!

Well that all sounds most encouraging - anything that widens the sweet spot can be really useful, especially if you have another musicians sitting in next to you.

I must explore this Sonarworks product myself, as I'm already mighty impressed by their Reference3 headphone calibration plug-in!

Martin

[Zukan]

I think someone else here used it and said it was excellent.

Sonarworks are good guys in my book and that is a serious compliment when you look at the practices of some of the developers nowadays.

Martin, there is a more cost effective way of sorting your acoustics out. Do what I did: leave a trail of Choc Hobnobs leading to your studio. The rest will take care of itself. The 'two' will follow. I can guarantee this.

[Pete Kaine]

Do what I did: leave a trail of Choc Hobnobs leading to your studio. The rest will take care of itself. The 'two' will follow. I can guarantee this.

I've already come the conclusion over here that the current price of the Sonarworks pack, is cheaper than investing in 200 miles worth of Hobnobs.

[stormymondays]

I took an unscientific walk around the studio while playing some reference tracks and I can say that my sound has improved across the whole room, not just the listening position. Or, at the very least, it hasn't worsened!

[sixtysixmix]

I think someone else here used it and said it was excellent.

I did. And I am still happy. I think the secret was buying the headphones + software kit because the exact headphones you get are specifically mapped out in the curve. Its not just an average.

I got this to be able to check bass response in my sucky room (working on getting out of my spare room and into a 1000ft unit !! ) and it really does help on each mix to spend some time once I am happy on the monitors, running through to get a different, clearer viewpoint of the bass side of things. I make some changes and then back on the speakers it always sounds better ... but on the speakers I can't take the decisions. Not sure if I am explaining myself here.

[Dr Huge Longjohns]

I think the OP was talking about the speaker calibration kit, not the headphone one you;re referring to. The headphone one is excellent, though, I use it all the time now.

[Andrea Cremonini]

I was looking at the speakers bundle now and I'd like to hear what you guys think about the efficiency of doing the same process but with Smaart or Spectrafoo with a measurement mic. I have Spectrafoo standard myself and I could get access to Smaart easily. Keep also in mind that before the end of the month I am eligible for a student discount of 50% so I could get the bundle with speakers + hp + mic for like 150£. Is it worth spending the cash or better to do it myself?

[Dr Huge Longjohns]

OK so I took the plunge (special offer!) on the speaker calibration trial which I have just installed and run. My first response was, er, where did all the bass go? Whilst the sound from my Genelec 1030s is now considerably less boomy and the soundstage is generally much clearer and tighter, is it simply because the Sonarworks plug seems to have taken around 12dB out around the 150hz mark? Bass instruments, kick drums etc are massively quieter with the calibration switched in. But are they meant to be like that???? Have I done it wrong??? All most odd.

I have had the headphone version for about 18 months and use it all the time with my HD600s but it doesn't seem to lose all the bass from a track like the speaker version.

Did the OP get the No Bass sensation when he first fired it up?

[stormymondays]

No. My calibration was the opposite: finally I got enough bass!

I've just gotten a pair of new monitors for trial, which are significantly better than what I have. I have to say that, once calibrated, the difference between both pairs is quite small. I'm frankly surprised.

[Martin Walker]

OK so I took the plunge (special offer!) on the speaker calibration trial which I have just installed and run. My first response was, er, where did all the bass go? Whilst the sound from my Genelec 1030s is now considerably less boomy and the soundstage is generally much clearer and tighter, is it simply because the Sonarworks plug seems to have taken around 12dB out around the 150hz mark? Bass instruments, kick drums etc are massively quieter with the calibration switched in. But are they meant to be like that???? Have I done it wrong??? All most odd.

Hi Dr. Huge!

This sounds most odd, as well as unexpected - hopefully Rūdolfs from Sonarworks will spot this thread and make some suggestions as to the source of the problem.

*Unless of course, you really were used to far too much low end in your playback

Martin

[Dr Huge Longjohns]

Well it may be user error in the analysis phase but the instructions are pretty idiot proof. My room is fairly sensibly treated too but there is always the possibility that I do have a very bass heavy listening position and have just got very used to it over the 6 years I've been in this house. My mixes aren't at all bass light when I export them, though, but again it may be because I use a lot of reference tracks.

Sonarworks gives you the option of a flat calibration and a 'peaks only' calibration, as you know, the latter just taking the big anomalies out to a lesser degree as far as I can see from the curve. This brings back some of the bass end.

The annoying thing is that installing this demo has killed the headphone side of Sonaworks for some reason but I've sent a note to them about this.

[Dr Huge Longjohns]

Here's the calibration graph I got...

[Dr Huge Longjohns]

The "after" curve is almost ruler-flat.

WOndering how you analysed this, as I'd like to see the actual 'after' curve for my set up? Did you do a separate measurement of the frequency response with another piece of software with the Sonarworks switched in?

[Dr Huge Longjohns]

Sorry, just realised you can ask the interface to show the AFTER as well as the before. So here's what it's doing and what it's allegedly achieving.

[James Perrett]

Huge - I'm just wondering if you've concentrated too much on taming the high end and the low bass with your room treatment and missed out on treating the high bass/low mid region? Thin panels tend to be effective down to about 400Hz while thicker ones go down lower but you need some serious treatment to tame your problem area.

Of course, moving the test microphone just a few inches may make a surprising difference so it would be worth another having another go in a different position.

[Dr Huge Longjohns]

Hi James
Could well be in need of more scientific treatment. None of it is based on measurements, just on subjective perception! But it's just that it sounds abnormally bass light after the Sonarworks adjustment kicks in. As I say, could be entirely correct and I'm just used to a much more bass-heavy listening environment. I've never been in a top mastering suite!

To your second point, Sonarworks makes you move the measurement mic around to about 20 different spots so presumably this is to get an average reading around your normal listening position. But might well try it again and see if I get a different result. You can save your settings so you don't lose anything by re-doing it all.

[Dr Huge Longjohns]

I know you've all been on the edge of your seats wondering how the second test went. Well...success, in a nutshell. Whether the first test was user error or not (I suspect it was) I don't know, but this time I got a significantly different 'before' reading at 100 hz, about 6dB lower than in test one. This obviously meant Sonarworks didn't cut so much out here. The 190 hump was the same but clearly on listening this wasn't at all the issue. So the 12dB correction at 190 was still there but the correction at 100 was reduced by 6dB which made all the difference. And now...if I switch Sonarworks out it sounds even more terrible as it sounds sooooooo clean and clear with it in. Oh dear, I've only got it on a 21 day trial and the clock is ticking.

So which is better, as Harry would say, spending a fortune on more bass trapping to kill the 100 hz issue that way or spend 2oo euros on Sonawarks?

[stormymondays]

I think you got to do both. The better treated the room, the better the performance of the correction. An untreated or badly treated room will have problems that can't be EQ'd out.

[Dr Huge Longjohns]

Yes, you're right of course. James probably nailed it in his earlier post. I clearly don't have enough bottom end trapping by a long chalk.

[Martin Walker]

I know you've all been on the edge of your seats wondering how the second test went. Well...success, in a nutshell... And now...if I switch Sonarworks out it sounds even more terrible as it sounds sooooooo clean and clear with it in. Oh dear, I've only got it on a 21 day trial and the clock is ticking.

Very pleased to hear this Huge, and a great relief I'm sure.

It would be interesting to find out why your first results were so different though, for future reference (and of course helpful feedback to the developers) - any thoughts?

Martin

[Dr Huge Longjohns]

Well, two things spring to mind. The first time I did it I held the reference mic in my hand for some of the measurements so I may have been moving it up and down etc while the software was doing its thing.

I was in a dialogue with Elijah at Sonarworks (excellent and knowledgable/speedy support by the way, both on this product and the headphone version I bought a while ago) and he suggested using a stand for the re-trial, which I did (although the instructions don't say this, as such).

Secondly ,and Elijah suggested this, I may have mismeasured the distance between my monitors. I don't think I did but I may have done in my excitement to get it up and running. I certainly double-checked it second-time through.

As I said, above, It's a lot of dosh, though, when I've already bought the headphone version and the speaker trial.

But it's certainly made me think about adding some serious chunk-style traps into the corners near my listening position. About £50 in insulation plus wood and fabric etc. For half the price of Sonarworks I could do a LOT more trapping.

The other thing is, while I'm rambling on a friday afternoon, it's annoying to listen to your stuff in Logic through Sonarworks and then switch to iTunes, Spotify, iPlayer or Youtube etc and not be able to enjoy the same sonic magnificence.

I have an called Audio Hijack on trial that lets you insert effects into your iTunes etc signal path but it's a bit of a pain. It would be great if Sonarworks could deal with this somehow by plugging into your main audio out path too.

[stormymondays]

FYI Sonarworks are working on a system-wide solution, although it will probably take a few months.

I redid my calibration three times today, in order to test a few different monitor positions. Even with great monitors (APS Aeon) in a very well treated room, Sonarworks does its magic.