JBL eon one

[Janneman]

Goodmorning,

I've bought a JBL eon one for live gigs. I'm using a small A&H mixer because I find that easier to mix the signals. If I put the output of the mixer to 0 dB after adjusting the input levels correct and I put the input button on the Eon one on line input the overall output of the Eon one is very low. But when I put the input button to mic input the overall output is great and the system sounds very nice.

Is there something wrong with the gain structure on the JBL or are i'm doing something wrong?

regards from Holland

Jan van Duren

[Sam Spoons]

Which A&H mixer? The small Zeds have a "DI Level" switch (for sub mixing) which reduces the main outputs to mic level. If you've got that switch in that will cause the effect you describe.

[Janneman]

Hi Sam,

Thanks for your replay. It's a Allen & Heath ZEDi-10FX but I can't discover any DJ switch.

Regards

Jan

[Hugh Robjohns]

Is there something wrong with the gain structure on the JBL or are i'm doing something wrong?

I suspect this is a cabling/connection issue.

Can you confirm what type of cables you are using between the mixer and the Eon One?

Balanced or unbalanced?

What connectors at each end?

And what output connection are you using from the mixer and into the Eon One?

Ideally, you should be using balanced XLR (f) to TRS plug cables, plugged into the Main Out XLRs of the mixer and into the TRS inputs 3/4 of the EON One.

If you need to connect into the first two channels of the Eon ot make use of the EQ, then use the central TRS jack sockets with the Eon switched to Line mode.

I suspect you're currently using XLR-XLR cables into channel 1/2 in which case it will only work in the Mic mode, but you risk overloading the inputs.

H

[Sam Spoons]

Hi Sam,

Thanks for your replay. It's a Allen & Heath ZEDi-10FX but I can't discover any DJ switch.

Regards

Jan

Where such a switch is fitted it is often not well marked so it's an easy mistake to make. However The ZEDi mixers do not have the "DI" switch only the standard ZED models so that is not the issue. In which case I refer you to Hugh's post

[Janneman]

Goodmorning Sam and Hugh,

The solution that Hugh gave was right. Sometimes solutions are that easy.

Thank you both very much.

For both and your family a very good year 2017.



regards from a very misty Holland.

Jan van Duren

[Hugh Robjohns]

Glad it was that easy!

H

[Sam Spoons]

[Janneman]

Goodmorning,

Put on a wrong question. The answer was already given.

regards

Jan van Duren

[gogi]

This is a follow on question is for Hugh based on his recommendation to use balanced XLR to jack TRS cable and not XLR to XLR cable (with the dip switch set at mic).

Suppose the EON one is located 100 feet from the mixer, and logic suggests using an XLR. To XLR cable instead to reduce line losses over the distance. Where should the dip switch be set?

[Wonks]

An XLR to TRS cable with is still a balanced cable, the TRS jack is simply a different type of connector to an XLR. The cable lengths and types would be the same so any resistance and capacitance losses would be the same.

Your mixer is still putting out a line level signal regardless of what cable you use. So you should still need to set the input switch on the EON to line level.

If you aren't getting a strong signal into the EON like this, then it's because the mixer isn't sending out a strong enough signal, which then comes down to the gain structure you are using in the mixer. Are you getting the output bar meters hitting 0dB or above and it still sounds very quiet?

What have you got the volume knobs set to on the EON? If you've got the master volume and channel volumes set in the mid positions, then you aren't going to get a lot of volume out. Set them all to maximum to start with and only back them off if the Limit light comes on or back off the input channel volume a bit if you think it the signal sounds distorted. You then have full control of the output level from the mixer.

[Janneman]

Goodmorning,

I'm using now input 3&4 for TTRS cables. Very easy.

tech. info
Ch 1-2 Combo: XLR 40 K Ohms Balanced

Ch 1-2 Combo: TRS 40 K Ohms Balanced
or
Ch 3-4: TRS 20 K Ohms Balanced

regards

Jan van Duren

[Hugh Robjohns]

Suppose the EON one is located 100 feet from the mixer, and logic suggests using an XLR. To XLR cable instead to reduce line losses over the distance. Where should the dip switch be set?

It's not the connector that is important here. To minimise interference you need a balanced cable. That has three connections so you need either XLR or TRS plugs at the end.

By all means extend your XLR-TRS cable with more XLR-XLR cables if you need to move the speakers further way. Nothing else changes. You're still sending a balanced line level signal, and it still needs a TRS plug at the speaker end because that's the connection format it provides for line level input signals.

H

[SteveGeetar]

I've just joined this forum after reading this thread and seeing how helpful your members are. I am new to being responsible for live sound. I've just experienced an issue related to this thread that I wanted to describe for your consideration and advice.
I play guitar in a duo to accompany a female vocalist and I also sing. We typically play lower volume small venues such as restaurant lounges, coffee shops, art galleries, wine bars, and business/social luncheons and meeting. After trying the Bose Compact and JBL Eon One systems, we got the JBL. We used our JBL Eon One for the past 2 weeks in rehearsals, had found good settings, and were very happy with our sound. (We rehearse in a living room, so levels are lower than live performances.)
During our soundcheck this past weekend at our first gig with this system, we experienced an unpleasant sound quality issue that I can best describe as over-driven, distorted, fuzzy, or muddy; almost as if a speaker was blown or getting ready to. It was most obvious on my vocals - lower frequencies and less noticeable with her vocals. I turned down my mic to avoid doing any damage, but then was told I couldn't be heard.
Here's our setup:
We use two vocal mics using XLR connections into CHs 1 and 2 of a Mackie 1202-VLZ3 mixer. The mixer checks out fine with a 2 mains-style PA. I like to use it for more EQ control and for future additional sound sources, ie keyboard.
My Takamine LTD2000 acoustic/elec guitar with factory onboard battery-powered electronics goes out to a small effects board then out via a 1/4" instrument cable into Line-In Channel 3 input of the Mackie board.
I use one XLR cable from the L Main output from the Mackie board into the CH1 input of the JBL Eon One.
I followed carefully the Level-Setting and Instant Mixing procedures in my Mackie Manual. Channel levels were set to unity and the main mix was up about 1/3.
The JBL Eon One Settings were as follows:
Bass and Treble at 12 o'clock (midpoint). Reverb at 10 o'clock. Ch Vol set at 9 o'clock.
Mic input switch in. Master Volume about 1/4.
Thinking back to when I first started using the JBL Eon One, I tried the mic/line switch out (line) and the levels were so low that I had to turn the JBL levels up to levels that seemed wrong. Concerned that I was going to blow-up my brand new JBL Eon One, I turned it back down and switched back to Mic input.
My main question: is it likely that this distortion was caused by how I had it set up?
Is the fix as simple as using TRS cables into CH 3/4 as mentioned in this thread? Although wouldn't that take Reverb out of the mix?
OR, is the fix to push the CH 1 JBL Eon One Mic/Line switch to Line and crank the levels on the CH 1 and Master Volume?

[Janneman]

Hi Steve,

I own a JBL eon one (see my questions above). But I don't recognise the problems. The sound on our JBL is very power full and has a very nice sound. Are you sure that all your levels are correct. Bye one cable with TRS connectors and see of the problems are over.

Goodluck

regards

Jan van Duren

[Drew Stephenson]

Hi Steve,
You shouldn't need to have the mic-switch in on the JBLs. The mics are already going through a pre-amp in the mixer and the output from the mixer will be line level. Putting the signal through a second set of mic pre-amps would explain the distortion. How does it behave with main mixer out set to unity?

[Sam Spoons]

The Mackie 1202 VLZ3 has a mic/line switch (labeled "Main Output Level") between the main and control room outputs. If that is in the desk outputs are at mic level. it requires a pen or screwdriver to operate (to avoid accidental operation which was common on the first 1202 VLZ that I have).

Turning the master volume on the Eon One up to full is fine, then you can control everything from the mixer (this is complicated by the 'volume' on the channels but set these at, say, 12 o'clock for starters). Definitely use the mic/line switch in line level.

[Drew Stephenson]

The Mackie 1202 VLZ3 has a mic/line switch (labeled "Main Output Level") between the main and control room outputs. If that is in the desk outputs are at mic level. it requires a pen or screwdriver to operate (to avoid accidental operation which was common on the first 1202 VLZ that I have).

Oops! I stand corrected. Thanks Sam

[Sam Spoons]

It's useful if using it as a sub mixer into a snake but otherwise should be in the 'line' position. The older 1202s Iike mine) had an exposed button and it was very easy to switch it when plugging in or carrying the desk leading to head scratching on several occasions

[SteveGeetar]

Thank You all for your responses.
I see the Main Output Level recessed silver button on the back of the Mackie Mixer that must be pushed with a fine point (spring loaded in or out).
I hadn't paid much attention to this button thus far. I just reviewed the Manual, but the explanation for this switch makes no sense to me (with my limited PA system experience and knowledge).
The labeling for this switch on the back is not very clear to me either. It appears to indicate if the button is pushed farthest in, it is MIC and if in the shallower position it is +4.
So does +4 mean the same thing as Line Level?
And is +4 position where I should have it set?

[James Perrett]

Ch Vol set at 9 o'clock.

That would set alarm bells ringing to me unless I knew that control was right at the input (in which case it would probably be labelled input gain). Chances are that there is a preamp stage before this control and you are overloading the preamp. The optimum setting is probably somewhere between 12 o'clock at 3 o'clock - depending upon the noise performance of the Eon's input stage.

[Wonks]

The JBL Eon One Settings were as follows:
Bass and Treble at 12 o'clock (midpoint). Reverb at 10 o'clock. Ch Vol set at 9 o'clock.
Mic input switch in. Master Volume about 1/4....
..
..
..
..OR, is the fix to push the CH 1 JBL Eon One Mic/Line switch to Line and crank the levels on the CH 1 and Master Volume?

You said it yourself. I'd set the master volume on full and the EONs input channel set to line input and the channel volume at around 3/4.

You should now be able to control the output from the main fader. Your next task is to make sure the input gains on your mixer are set correctly so that the inputs aren't distorting. Turn down the master output knob. On each input channel at a time, set the output fader knob to 0dB gain, press the pre fader solo button and adjust the input trim control on the channel until the meter LEDs are peaking in the -2 to +2dB area. Once you've done this to all your inputs (remember to only PF solo one channel at a time and remember to undo the PF solo on the last channel you used) , then you should be able to bring your master output fader up and hear a lot of nice noise from your EON speaker.

Now's the time to balance the channels, but try and keep the loudest channel at 0dB gain if you can, and lower the others below this. Hopefully you shouldn't need to have the main meters going much above the 0dB level, as you've got now the EON's volume set high. There will be some headroom on the EON's inputs, but you probably can't drive it too hard above the nominal input level (which will be when the mixer's output meters hit 0dB) before the input begins to clip.

Also, keep an eye on the limit light on the EON. If this starts flashing, then the power amps are working at almost their maximum output and the signal to them is being limited to protect them and the speakers. At this point, you'll need to back off the input signal, either by reducing the input channel volume, or by lowering the signal level from the mixer.

There are other variations on setting up your mixer levels, but this one works OK for me.

+4 indicates +4dBu. the 'professional' line level (the 'consumer line level is a bit lower level signal and is -10dBv, note the different units).

[Sam Spoons]

Yup, as Wonky says. Just to reinforce, line level for everything except mics, it's just better that way.

[SteveGeetar]

Thanks to all for your prompt and thoughtful advice, I've learned I made several mistakes that likely caused my sound quality issue. Listed below is what I think I need to do, with a few clarifying questions. If I misunderstood or still don't have it figured out, I'd appreciate you re-calibrating me.
1. I understand that if I'm going to run my Mackie Mixer L Main XLR output to the JBL CH 3, I need to get an XLR to TRS cable. But that CH has no reverb, so I want to use either CH 1 or 2.
2. For me to use the reverb on the JBL, I need to use either CH 1 or 2. I currently run my Mackie Mixer L Main XLR output to the JBL CH1 input with an XLR connector. JBL CH 1 and 2 inputs are combinations jacks.
QUESTION - Do I need to get an XLR to TRS cable to make that proper connection to be at line level?
3. The Mic/Line selector on the JBL CH 1 will be set to Line Level.
4. I'll do all EQ on the Mackie Mixer.
QUESTION - Should I set the JBL tone knobs straight up or all the way left?
5. The Main Output Level switch on the back of the Mackie Mixer will be set to +4 rather than Mic.
6. I will carefully adhere to the Level Setting and the Instant Mixing procedures in the Mackie Mixer Manual to ensure that the gain levels are set properly to ensure sufficient signal strength and to avoid clipping. Will use the Mixer Channel volumes to fine tune individual sources' volumes.
6. Once all sources are balanced on the mixer, I will leave all settings alone and adjust the overall volume level with the Main Mix master volume on the mixer.
6. The Channel and Master Volume knobs on the JBL Eon One will be set to Max. Will watch to ensure the yellow LED clipping light doesn't light. Will adjust CH 1 volume down if light comes on or if signal sounds distorted.

[Wonks]

2. From the description in the EON manual, I'd say yes , but if you've already been connecting to it with an XLR to XLR and the mic/line switch made a big difference to the output from the EON, rather than cut off the signal altogether (as if it has switched to the TRS input), then your good to go with an XLR-XLR cable.

4. Have them centred to start with. Playback some music you know well and see if you think it sounds balanced. If it's too bassy to too dull, then I'd use the tone controls on the EON to get a sound you're more happy with. Straight up should be fine for most things if JBL have done their job, but in some locations you might want to just tweak thinks a bit if there's a lot of reverb making things muddy, or a lot of soft surfaces soaking up the high frequencies. You've only got basic treble and bass controls, so you can't do too much to the sound with it. but give it a go and see if it helps. If not, just leave them flat.

Then you can use the mixer's channel tone controls to treat the input signals as required.