Mic stand for reflection filter

[Bill S]

Hi all

I am looking for a good quality, fairly heavy duty mic stand to support a mic, pop shield the LD Systems reflection filter I have recently purchased.

At the moment I am using a boom arm type and it is wilting under the weight. I have seen Paul and Hugh recommend straight stands to support a filter and that makes sense to me. If it is a factor, I am 6 foot 3, so when I am singing I don't want to hunched over a straight stand that's on the small side.

Any heavy duty suggestions welcome!

Bill

[Guest271017]

First, I'd get a stand with a solid metal base, not the foldout three leggers. You can put another weight over the post, on top of the metal base for even more stability. It's wilting at the friction joint of the boom, if I guess correctly? Make sure the new stand is ratcheted there and doesn't rely on friction to hold it. Snare stands, cymbal stands and tom mounts have the ratchet feature I mention, to be clear.

[Guest271017]

If it is the boom joint that's weak, a couple of star washers, correctly placed in the sandwich, will increase the friction hold.

[Hugh Robjohns]

They will... but they will also wreck the clutch mechanism.

Budget boom stands just aren't designed very well, but can be improved very easily.

The core problem with drooping boom arms is not that the clutch is too weak and needs vandalising with star washers ...

...it is that the boom is not balanced and thus the rotational torque acting on the clutch exceeds its design limits. If the boom is properly balanced the load on the clutch is minimal and there will be no droopage.

Although budget mic stand booms have a counter weight at the distal end, that weight is far too light to be effective in normal use. If you look at the size and mass of the counterweights on high-end mic stand booms you'll quickly see how naffly undersized the stock stands' counterweights really are.

The reason for the prevalence of undersized counterweights is simply the cost of manufacturing and -- more importantly -- shipping. Heavy steel costs a lot to buy and ship. It's that simple.

Thankfully, it is pretty easy to add weight to the counterweight... the challenge is to do it in a way that is safe and structurally sound. You really don't want the extra weight to fall off! One simple solution is to use exercise wrist weights and some tie wraps or gaffa tape, for example. Not pretty, but very effective.

The idea is to be able to adjust the pivot point of the boom arm (by sliding it back and forth in the swivel mount) so that the counterweight exactly balances the weight of the mic and associated accessories etc. The clutch then simply has to hold the position, not carry all the rotational forces.

Having said all that, when it comes to reflexion-style filter screens, I'd always mount if on a simple vertical stand, and suspend the mic in over the top from a second separate properly balanced) boom arm stand. There's just far too much weight for a conventional single stand to cope with on its own, and it can be tricky getting the centre-of gravity of the whole assembly correctly over the centre pillar of the stand.

[shufflebeat]

More ramblings on the subject:

http://www.soundonsound.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=15&t=56378&p=506016#p506016

[Guest271017]

The reason for the prevalence of undersized counterweights is simply the cost of manufacturing and -- more importantly -- shipping. Heavy steel costs a lot to buy and ship. It's that simple.

Good point, should've occurred to me. I obviously needed a primer on the concept, thanks for that.

If you really want to get technical, a moveable counter weight, like on tower cranes would be ideal. Other option would be removable weights, like a balance scale.

I still like the star washer idea, when I batten a hatch, it stays battened.

[Hugh Robjohns]

If you really want to get technical, a moveable counter weight, like on tower cranes would be ideal.

And on most high-end mic stands, they are movable -- although manually, rather than automatic.





The only automatically adjusted counter-weight system on a mic stand that I am aware of is on the Fisher Boom used for positoning mics on TV and film sets.

I still like the star washer idea, when I batten a hatch, it stays battened.

[Guest271017]

Those must be in the $100's. I hope the wheels are lockable, could be a show in itself watching someone chasing that around a wobbly stage trying to play and sing.

For the amount that costs, I could buy a lifetime supply of cheap stands and a packet of star washers and not have to worry if it hides behind a door on load out.

[Hugh Robjohns]

Those must be in the $100's.

These are obviously studio rather than stage stands, as they have relatively large footprints and long reaches, but the top one is the Sontronics Matrix 10 and costs about £240 (it's actually a modified photo-lighting stand) -- and yes, the wheels lock (and are removable).

http://www.soundonsound.com/reviews/son ... -matrix-10

The bottom one is the Latchlake MicKing which costs about £400, although there is also a cheaper version (the 1100 model) with optional extra screw-on counterbalance weights at around £250.

http://www.soundonsound.com/reviews/latch-lake-micking

http://www.soundonsound.com/reviews/lat ... cking-1100

So yes, initially an expensive outlay, but these are stands that will literally last a lifetime and then some... They wont need replacing after a few years when the star washers have eroded the clutch mechanism

I can understand that this might not seem a worthwhile studio expense if your mics only cost a £150 a go, but if you're working with mics costing £1000+ it gives a lot more peace of mind to invest in a high quality stand that you know will keep the mic safely where you put it and not end up drooped through the top of a priceless vintage instrument or lying in the dust on the floor!

H

[jaminem]

They have these at my local rehearsal studio. They're pretty huge, sturdy and I'm not sure you could beat the price....

https://www.thomann.de/gb/superlux_ms_200.htm

[Hugh Robjohns]

They have these at my local rehearsal studio.

...and with a large movable counterweight! Just what the doctor* ordered

H

*I've always liked the idea of being granted an honorary doctorate from some university or other Just so I could be called 'doctor Hugh'...

[Music Wolf]

Aside from the issues with boom droop, be aware that these filters can make the stand top-heavy and very unstable. I managed to knock one over and broke the keyboard on a laptop (fortunately it was only the keyboard and I was able to replace it).

[ConcertinaChap]

The price has gone up a little and they've changed the design a little since I got it, but I can recommend the Matrix 10 wholeheartedly. I have had it with a Gemini III and a Reflexion filter hanging off the end and it was completely stable. It is bulky and I only have space for the one but it is really nice to hang a mic and filter in front of a seated guitarist with the Matrix 10 off to the side when I've got a couple of mics in front of him for the guitar. It leaves the musician feeling not nearly so hemmed in if I was using smaller, cheaper stands and needed a third stand for the filter.

CC

[Bill S]

Hi all

I am looking for a good quality, fairly heavy duty mic stand to support a mic, pop shield the LD Systems reflection filter I have recently purchased.

At the moment I am using a boom arm type and it is wilting under the weight. I have seen Paul and Hugh recommend straight stands to support a filter and that makes sense to me. If it is a factor, I am 6 foot 3, so when I am singing I don't want to hunched over a straight stand that's on the small side.

Any heavy duty suggestions welcome!

Bill

Thanks all.

I guess I should also have said, space is at a premium and a small footprint is desirable (maybe a weighted circle rather than the three pronged idea). Having spent a bit on nice aesthetics, I am trying to avoid home made solutions...finally, my one and only mic is an old but perfectly good Rode which cost £130 15 years ago...although I might upgrade at some point.

[John Willett]

The bottom one is the Latchlake MicKing which costs about £400, although there is also a cheaper version (the 1100 model) with optional extra screw-on counterbalance weights at around £250.

http://www.soundonsound.com/reviews/lat ... cking-1100

So yes, initially an expensive outlay, but these are stands that will literally last a lifetime and then some... They wont need replacing after a few years when the star washers have eroded the clutch mechanism

The LatchLake 1100 is excellent - heavy and very stable.

I have one and got the 4lb optional counterweight as well - as the counterweights screw together, I have the option of 2lb, 4lb or 6lb.

Excellent stand and highly recommended.

I know they have one on display at SX-Pro (The Studio Shop) in London (nearest tube is Highgate).

.

[Bill S]

The bottom one is the Latchlake MicKing which costs about £400, although there is also a cheaper version (the 1100 model) with optional extra screw-on counterbalance weights at around £250.

http://www.soundonsound.com/reviews/lat ... cking-1100

So yes, initially an expensive outlay, but these are stands that will literally last a lifetime and then some... They wont need replacing after a few years when the star washers have eroded the clutch mechanism

The LatchLake 1100 is excellent - heavy and very stable.

I have one and got the 4lb optional counterweight as well - as the counterweights screw together, I have the option of 2lb, 4lb or 6lb.

Excellent stand and highly recommended.

I know they have one on display at SX-Pro (The Studio Shop) in London (nearest tube is Highgate).

.

Yes, just watched a video review of it from Pro Tools Expert and it looks amazing, but I can't quite justify a mic stand that costs more than twice that of my current microphone!

[Drew Stephenson]

For something slightly more affordable, but still durable and reliable, I've always found the Hercules stuff good.

[WiseSon]

Hello there,

This might be what you were looking for:

https://www.sweetwater.com/store/detail/MC125

Cheers.