Behringer output

[Robin B]

Hi all - I am thinking of buying a Behringer mixer for home studio use. I understand that it comes with an option to download some DAW software from Tracktion. My question is once the output from the Behring has been recorded can any of the parameters of the individual tracks be changed / edited etc.
Thanks for any info.
Robin

[The Korff]

On some Behringer USB mixers you can record each of the tracks individually, but on others you can't. Which model were you thinking of?

[Robin B]

Ah ok - thanks - I hadn't even thought of the USB versions.
At this stage I am probably looking at the BEHRINGER Xenyx 802 or the BEHRINGER XENYX 1202FX.
Not after anything too complex - yet.

[Sam Spoons]

I'm pretty sure they only have stereo USB but if you record no more than two things at a time to build up your songs they can work as a recording interface. USB outputs usually mirror the main L/R outputs on small mixers so whet you record will have any eq you use printed to 'tape'. You can then apply eq, dynamics and fx to each track and mix them down to a stereo master within Traction or whatever DAW you choose.

If you want to record more than two instruments at a time (or a whole band) you'll need a mixer or interface with more channels. The minimum for a three piece 'power trio' for example is 4 plus vocals (though they can be added later) but if you use amp sims for the electric guitar you can manage with two mic inputs for kick and overhead and two line/instrument inputs.

What kind of music are you planning to record, and with a band or you playing all the parts yourself?

[Drew Stephenson]

Sam's pretty much got it covered but it's worth bearing in mind that the 1202FX only transmits data at 16-bit rather than 24bit. I think there are alternatives out there now that do 24 bit transfer for a very similar amount of cash. I'm sure someone will be along with a recommendation shortly.

[Robin B]

Thanks everyone lots of good information I am a photographer venturing into video and sound recording - with and without video. So I'll be behind the mic - not performing.

At the moment I'll be recording a vocalist and guitarist and I assumed I'd be recording one at a time. We may add a bass guitar and a harmony from the vocalist later. Not planning on using more than two mics at a time anyway.

Sam - thank you - it looks like the 1202FX has 4 XLR inputs but I guess that doesn't mean they can be recorded on separate tracks. How does the bit rate affect things?

My preference would be to record each track with no EQ or FX and then add that later as necessary. Maybe I don't need a physical mixer at all - just phantom power - and a preamp - especially as all the EQ and FX could theoretically be done in DAW and in post.

I have a Saramonic SR-PAX2 which I'll be using with the camera for recording other sound on location - not music though. It has 2 XLR inputs and phantom power available. Maybe that would be enough.

[Sam Spoons]

You'll need some kind of audio interface to get the audio converted into digital and into the computer DAW. If the budget is sufficient I'd buy a Focusrite Scarlett 2i2 (£129 in the UK). It gives you two mic inputs which can accept line or instruments and connects to the computer via USB.

The bit rate is important 'cos it governs how much headroom you have and 24 bit allows you to record at a much lower level without compromising the quality of the end result.

What mics do you have? For recording guitar and vocals a couple of cardioid condensers are probably the best option. The vocal will need a pop shield if you close mic so a dedicated vocal mic might be a better choice. I have SE-H1 but there are many others out there.

[The Korff]

This: http://www.musictri.be/Categories/Behri ... 04/p/P0AB2

...has 4 mic preamps, and can record them all individually to a computer, along with a bunch of the line inputs — it can record 16 individual tracks at a time to a computer (or even direct to a USB drive). I've used the larger 1604 version and it's surprisingly great!

Google tells me the above is going for just north of 300 quid at the mo...

Cheers,

Chris

[Drew Stephenson]

As Sam suggests, it sounds like you need an interface rather than a mixer.

[Robin B]

Thank you all for the extra information. It is very much appreciated.

I think I need to keep the budget down a bit at this stage so 24 bit is probably not an option

The Behringer Q802USB looks like a very good option for the price and will do what I want - especially as I'll probably be going with the Behringer C1 large cardiod mics - again keeping the budget in mind.

And yes to the pop filter.

From the many reviews and product descriptions I have watched and read I also get the impression that only the USB version has an A/D converter on the output.

Having said that I only saw one reference to A/D conversion in one Youtube video - maybe it is assumed knowledge? My laptop - where I'll have Audacity or Tracktion - does not have a line input so a USB connection is probably a good thing anyway.

[ef37a]

Robin, do NOT go for a 16 bit USB mixer! A bit of reading will tell you that 16 bits is more than adequate for very good sound reproduction ( e.g. CD, the fact that studios smash everything into the top 6dB is by the by!) BUT! 16 mixer are not nearly as good as CD. Their basic noise level is around -80dB, well short of CD's 90+ but even worse than that they produce 'spiky' artifacts. If recording a band in a noisy pub, ok but not for most 'quiet and clean' recording.

I would strongly suggest a proper interface. The Behringers do get a good rep (DO get one soon SoS!) but I usually suggest the Steinberg UR22 as one of the best of the £100 ish AIs.

Now, I have no idea if MIDI has any use or connection to video but it adds peanuts to the cost of an AI and might just be handy?

Do consider Reaper as your DAW but also investigate MAGIX Samplitude Pro X Silver, only 8 tracks at a time but completely free.

Dave.

[Robin B]

Hmmm - ok thanks Dave.
Looking at reviews as I type.
Midi not so much but connection to video maybe
I'll look at those DAWs as well.

Robin

[Drew Stephenson]

Hi Robin, me again, with hopefully a less cryptic comment this time...
As Dave said, for recording I would really avoid the cheap mixers. They're fine for mixing live (I have a 1202 myself), or consolidating multiple inputs to a stereo output, but the recording side really is noticeably worse than comparably priced interfaces.
So it really comes down to what you want to do. Is it recording multiple sources at once / recording a live session somewhere? Or is it track by track recording to build up a song?
If it's the former then you're probably best delaying until you've got a bit more cash in the bank, or finding someone local to hire from (or getting a student from a music college to get involved?)
If it's the latter then have a look at the interface options, Behringer's u-phoria range are within your budget and seem to be going down well. A little more opens up the market a bit to Focusrite, Steinberg and Tascam options as well.

[Robin B]

Thanks Andrew,
I'd say mostly track by track recording to build up a song.
Almost certainly not a multi mic setup - I am recording in my photographic studio - with suitable acoustic screens - where two is company - plus me - and three is a crowd
I am looking at the Steinberg that Dave suggested but also a friend has a Focusrite Scartlett that he will lend me so that might answer a few questions - or cause a few more.
At least I believe it is a 24 bit device.
I am in Australia by the way which is largely academic but might explain the time shift in my responding
Thanks again.
Robin

[Drew Stephenson]

Excellent idea in borrowing the Scarlett, having a play with that will let you know everything you need to know. Fundamentally though, at the bottom end of the market, there's next to no difference in the quality of the sound with interfaces, so find one in your budget that has all the inputs and outputs you need (they mostly come with some kind of free DAW bundled in as well) and take it from there.
P.S. again echoing Dave's point, have a look and see if if there's something in your price range with a MIDI input as well. You may not think you need it now (I didn't when I bought my Scarlett) but having it there further down the line can be very useful (I bought a set of e-drums with a midi out, for example).

[Robin B]

Excellent - thank you.
I have a lot of reading to do and Youtube videos to watch

[Drew Stephenson]

For background stuff, here's a great video on digital audio: https://xiph.org/video/vid2.shtml
There's a huge amount of information passed in a very short time, but it cuts through a lot of the rubbish that you may hear along the way elsewhere.
If you learn well from reading, I'd have a look for a copy of Mike Senior's books: Recording Secrets for small studios, and the companion Mixing Secrets.

[Robin B]

Thank you - I'll check it all out in the next day or two.

[Sam Spoons]

Another +1 for not buying a 16 bit interface for all the reasons given above but mainly because, while 16 bit is indeed good enough for CD quality, recording a live performance you will probably have to deal with a much wider dynamic range than would be encountered on a CD (which has been mixed and mastered to reduce any extremes dynamics at the very least). Recording is almost universally better done at 24 bit and the available dynamic range is much much higher, enough to remove any need to risk clipping.

[ef37a]

All good stuff. I am pleased the MIDI mention was not dismissed out of hand? As I say, no idea what part it might play with video but you can control a lot of stuff in software with quite a basic MIDI controller.

Dave.

[Robin B]

I did all the reading and took the plunge.

An opportunity came up to buy an ex demo / "repacked" Focusrite Scarlett 2i4 2nd generation via ebay for around half the current rate for new on eBay. It seems to have everything everyone has mentioned and more . . . . . .

Only a 30 day warranty but the vendor has 100% rating. And they are a music shop based in Melbourne so it's in the same country

Thanks for everyone's input - again very much appreciated.

Now I need to look for a decent large cardiod microphone to use in a studio setup - was looking at the Behringer C1 but I guess I should keep looking around

[ef37a]

I don't know the consumer law in your 10/20 Robin but in UK 're-packed/demo/grade B goods have to retain the normal warranty, your statutory rights cannot be reduced so you get the standard 12 months.

If the 214 works ok out of the box you would be very unlucky to have it fail, ever but an email to Focusrite might clarify the situation?

Microphone suggestions I shall leave to my youngers and betters but I DO like the look of those SE SDCs in the March mag!

Dave.

[Robin B]

Thanks Dave - yes that did occur to me. I think it would be the same as the UK. The vendor is apparently an "ebay store" but all the same I did wonder about the warranty issue. I don't think they can offer something less than the statutory rights.

If I can register the device to get access to the software etc then hopefully it'll have the normal warranty as well. I am sure all will be revealed in time

Once I get the device here I'll email Focusrite with the serial number and other details and see what they think.

Hmm . . . . . the SE series mics do look nice but my bank balance may not agree . . . . . . . .

[ef37a]

"Hmm . . . . . the SE series mics do look nice but my bank balance may not agree . . . . . . . ."
??
You were thinking about an LDC. The Se 8s are £300 a matched pair which is arguably ball park/starting point for a decent LDC and the SDCs will be way more versatile. I would bet they do VO pretty well as well?

Dave.

[Drew Stephenson]

Bear in mind Dave that a Behringer C1 is about £50 and I think you'll have a better idea of the OP's budget
At which point you are probably best looking second hand again. On the positive side, LDCs tend to be fairly well looked after (in my experience) as they don't go out and about much and tend to get used in fairly safe environments.

[EDIT] If you have any mates/aquaintances who are into recording it's always worth asking if they have anything kicking around that they no longer use. A budget LDC is often an early purchase and is frequently therefore an early upgrade. I'm just looking at my mic drawers and there's sE2200 sitting there that I never use anymore and would happily sell on. Sadly the shipping may be prohibitive in your particular case!