Anyone using a Behringer X32 with synths?

[Dave Rowles]

I've had my X32 rack version pretty much from the day of release. It's without a doubt the best piece of behringer kit I've ever encountered, and has coped with anything and everything I've thrown at it. I've used far more expensive mixers that have broken more often. I've not managed to overload the inputs on it as yet, and have plugged loads of different things in with Jack-XLR cables - Synths, acoustic guitars, drum modules etc. Only managed to blow one drum module up when I was careless with the phantom, so that warning is a good one!

One thing to be really careful of are the XLR locks/clips on the mic inputs. They have a bad habit of breaking, and a LOT of people have taken the desks apart and just removed the locks. I have removed then on mine, and it's a fairly simple procedure with a little help from YouTube.

[Aled Hughes]

Hi Elf,

I'm not 100% on what you're wanting to achieve, but I've had a quick play on the UI24R anyway. I set up the Soundcraft as an audio interface, and played back a stereo virtual instrument from Bitwig through channels 1 and 2 on the desk, and plugged a microphone into channel 5. I then set the UI24R's internal multitrack recorder to record channels 1, 2 and 5, and it recorded and played the virtual instrument and live source as expected., which is what I think you're asking for?

However, the DAW playback was glitching when changing between Bitwig and the UI24R control page (on Google Chrome browser). This may or may not be a case of finding which browser best runs the UI24 software, or finding the optimum buffer settings. I'm using an i5/8GB Surface Pro 4, and the glitching was present at the 'standard' and 'relaxed' buffer settings (6ms/12ms I think). I haven't the time to go deeper I'm afraid - this could well be a very minor, easily fixed issue, or could be a deal breaker.

Other advantages of the UI24R for you may be:

*First 10 inputs are on XLR/jack combi sockets.

*If you don't trust to connect the laptops to it wirelessly for control, I'm pretty certain you could hardwire them via ethernet. That's what I do with the Surface for a hard-wired connection at the monitor desk position at gigs, then using a cheap Samsung Galaxy tablet at front of house, as it were.
There is no app to install - you point your browser to the UI24R. All your laptops could control their own mix, and only need to switch between DAW and browser to do so. However, the above mentioned glitching could be a complete deal breaker here.

Other downsides of the UI24R is that its 48kHz only.

If you want me to to do further testing on anything specific, let me know. First baby is due any minute though, so I can't promise anything!

**UPDATE**
I tried disabling some plugins in the DAW and the problems disappeared, so it does seem dependent on CPU load. AFAIK that could well be nothing to to with the UI24R itself (or equally, it could, I suppose!) The Surface Pro 4 isn't as solid as it used to be with audio at the moment, so the UI24R could very well be more stable on your system. I can't test on another system at the moment I'm afraid.

***FUTHER UPDATE***
I've just attempted the same playback with another interface (Avid Fast Track Duo, which is nothing spectacular in terms of performance), whilst jumping between DAW and browser as before. Things are much more stable with the Avid, and the buffer settings are also lower I think. I guess this points at unstable drivers for the Souncraft. So, in conclusion - and with the caveat that it may well behave differently on another computer - whilst the UI24R does what you want it it to in theory, I can't recommend it.

I'll flag this up ond the FB UI24R group, where one of the UI24R developers regularly contribute. If it's of interest I'll post any sensible replies here.

Hope that helps,
Aled

[The Elf]

Thanks for checking up for me. It does look a very slick piece of kit and the price is good.

It does sound like it would be up to the task, so I took a closer look and offered it up for consideration. The lack of knobs and faders will, I fear, be it's downfall for us.

[Aled Hughes]

Thanks for checking up for me. It does look a very slick piece of kit and the price is good.

It does sound like it would be up to the task, so I took a closer look and offered it up for consideration. The lack of knobs and faders will, I fear, be it's downfall for us.

No problem.
In case you missed it, I've edited my post with a couple of fairly significant updates.

Aled

[Aled Hughes]

As a follow-up to the above, and in the interest of fairness to Soundcraft (particularly Danny Olesh who responded very quickly to my concerns)

I tried the UI on a different USB port and it seems to have sorted the problem out.

[Drew Stephenson]

Is it really only 48kHz recording though? This has been on my 'potentials' list but that would scupper things.

[Aled Hughes]

Is it really only 48kHz recording though? This has been on my 'potentials' list but that would scupper things.

It really is, and its bloody annoying.
In practise, its not too much much of a concern for me, but its the only interface I've ever come across that's fixed at 48kHz. I don't like that one piece of equipment forces me to work at one particular sample rate, as I very often move projects between different studios, locations and interfaces.
I use Reaper and it transparently deals with any sample rate conversion needed, and I don't notice any loss of quality for it, but its still an unnecessary processing stage that the UI forces on you.

From what I understand most digital mixers operate internally at 48kHz, which goes some way towards explaining why 48 and not 44.1 (as the UI doesn't have any features that seem to gear it towards sound-for-video).

It should be a fairly simple fimware/driver upgrade, I presume, but that doesn't mean they'll do it. All the competing products seem to offer at least 44.1kHz as well - which is what I want - and I guess the lack of 88.2 / 96 kHz option may well put other users off.

Don't get me wrong, its a great piece of kit, and it does do a whole lot for a great price. There are just a couple of oversights (and they don't seem cost-related either) that could be a simple software fix.

[Drew Stephenson]

Hmmm. And indeed, harumph.
Oh well, I'm in no rush, other options may arise twixt now and my looking to upgrade.
Thanks for the confirmation.

[The Elf]

Fixed 48kHz is a silly restriction, and you really have to wonder what designers are thinking of when they build that kind of limitation in.

[Sam Spoons]

You can't go far wrong with an X32 of some flavour Elf Buy an SD8/16 and your stage box needs are sorted too.

[Hugh Robjohns]

From what I understand most digital mixers operate internally at 48kHz...

That would be news to me!

It should be a fairly simple fimware/driver upgrade, I presume...

Nope. The sample rate for the converters is normally derived from a physical crystal in the hardware unit. Given the very complex mathematical relationship between 44.1 and 48k, products that are required to switch between the different rates normally have two crystals, one for all the rates related to 44.1, and the other for all the rates related to 48, plus all the associated circuitry to buffer, divide, and switch between these two clock sources.

So unless that circuitry and the dual crystals were built into the Ui24 hardware it's extremely unlikely that any firmware/software update will add the versatility you seek!

H

[Aled Hughes]

From what I understand most digital mixers operate internally at 48kHz...

That would be news to me!

It should be a fairly simple fimware/driver upgrade, I presume...

Nope. The sample rate for the converters is normally derived from a physical crystal in the hardware unit. Given the very complex mathematical relationship between 44.1 and 48k, products that are required to switch between the different rates normally have two crystals, one for all the rates related to 44.1, and the other for all the rates related to 48, plus all the associated circuitry to buffer, divide, and switch between these two clock sources.

So unless that circuitry and the dual crystals were built into the Ui24 hardware it's extremely unlikely that any firmware/software update will add the versatility you seek!

H

Ah! Thank you Hugh. In that case I'll stop worrying about it. Is 48kHz-only equipment more common than I've thought? It always struck me as a strange design choice on the UI24R. I've always assumed that, since even the very cheapest AIs seem to offer both 44.1 and 48 that it was a trivial matter, but now I see that functionality needs to be designed into the hardware, as you point out.

I don't know why I thought that most mixer operate at 48kHz - perhaps its something I read about the X32/M32 series. My apologies for spreading lies!

[Hugh Robjohns]

Is 48kHz-only equipment more common than I've thought?

Equipment designed specifically for the broadcast industry may well operate with a fixed 48kHz sample rate (because of the need to be synchronous with video frame rates), but most manufacturers design their products for sale in the widest possible range of markets, and hence tend to build in options for different sample rates.

H

[plodsmeade]

I've not managed to overload the inputs on it as yet

you're obviously not trying hard enough

[Hugh Robjohns]

I've not managed to overload the inputs on it as yet

you're obviously not trying hard enough

... But as I said earlier,

The mic preamps clip with an input signal at +23dBu...

so you real would have to do something extremely stupid to overload the inputs on the X32.

H

[Dave B]

so you real would have to do something extremely stupid to overload the inputs on the X32.

Hold my drink ......

[The Elf]

X32 Compact system ordered (with X-Live card, digital stageboxes and personal monitor mixers), but it's going to take a couple of months at least before it arrives. I'll report back when I've had a chance to play.

[Dave B]

If you’re using the digital stage box thingy then be careful about power and earth. Drop Max a quick line and he’ll explain it - if there’s a power drop below a certain threshold then the system can suffer dropouts. You may never trigger it, but it’s worth being forewarned...

[The Elf]

If you’re using the digital stage box thingy then be careful about power and earth. Drop Max a quick line and he’ll explain it - if there’s a power drop below a certain threshold then the system can suffer dropouts. You may never trigger it, but it’s worth being forewarned...

Ugh! I'll do as you say...

Thanks, mate.

[Sam Spoons]

I'd say it is unlikely you will suffer a brown out sufficient to cause problems in the UK (on mains power at least) but I stand to be corrected

[Dave B]

Er .. it happened about half a dozen times in one night last Saturday... a couple were big drops where the whole rig was down for a second or so and the rest were more 'glitch' dropouts. Apparently it's a known issue with the voltage dipping under 218v - so if you're not careful with power consumption it can happen. Max knows the full ins and outs and was even investigating the mains distribution to see if things like fridges and freezers are on a different circuit... in the (very) small hours I might add.

It's a daft thing that isn't the end of the world to fix - one good UPS and some heavy duty power extension cable and it's gone. But it's daft that it even happens in the first place.

[Sam Spoons]

I stand corrected

TBF I usually use a UPS these days, not to protect against brown outs (though it will do that too) but against the 'Yoof' DJ next door unplugging my rig to charge his phone (and yes, that has actually happened).

[The Elf]

Scary. No way am I taking a UPS out with me. The whole point is to REDUCE the number/weight of boxes!

[Studio Support Gnome]

it is my considered view that anyone using a digital desk and digisnake , and not using an UPS to run the pair of them, and adhering strictly to the published specification of connection between stage box and console , is asking for all the trouble they WILL undoubtedly encounter, most notably in some of the dingier , or less robust live venues or festivals....

[The Elf]

I just can't be taking so much kit out with me - it's getting crazy as it is!