Anyone using a Behringer X32 with synths?

[Dave B]

You know that the day is finally coming - embrace it and be happy......

You're going to need a car with a boot.

And possibly backseat as well.

There - I've said it. Deep breath and then move forward.

[The Elf]

The last gig in Holland we hired a transit and the poor thing was groaning! If I mention taking any more kit I may well be found floating in the North Sea!

We also had 25 minutes to set the rig up and our soundcheck consisted of 'can we hear anything?!' - and that was a headline!

[Hugh Robjohns]

If you're looking at one of the rack-mounted versions of the X32, it's easy enough to stick a rack-mounting UPS into the rack as well. It will set you back another few hundred squids and add some weight to the rack, but it would be well worth it for the reliability and security it brings to the whole system.

H

[The Elf]

If you're looking at one of the rack-mounted versions of the X32, it's easy enough to stick a rack-mounting UPS into the rack as well...

I'm opting for the Compact, so that's not really an option.

All points noted.

The other options I've considered are no more attractive for many other reasons. This is about mixing and recording four keyboard players (plus audience and announcer mic's) and also providing me with an audio interface for my own rig. Reduction of boxes, cables and complexity is a priority.

The pair of L-12s did a great job, but the lack of moving faders scuppered one of the players, who couldn't grasp the concept of 'pass through' and the two sets of recordings need to be time-aligned after the event - possible, but not ideal.

I'll investigate the possibility of a compact UPS (this would need to power gear at all four corners of the stage), but I think it will prove logistically difficult and most likely met with resistance...

[Dave B]

Doesn't John take out a Kronos? I'm surprised he doesn't have a small ups already .. or does he like to live on the edge..?

[Sam Spoons]

I have a three small UPS', pretty much identical the this https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/600VA-ULTRA-MAX-UPS-Uninterruptible-Power-Supply-600SC-360W/262954863164?epid=2256195811&hash=item3d3954ca3c:g:DogAAOSw7U5ZAPeA But I found this one for half the price if you can cope with IEC outlets on it https://www.amazon.co.uk/Trust-UPS-Power-Supply-Unit/dp/B004YIT5ZU/ref=lp_430442031_1_25?s=computers&ie=UTF8&qid=1542716537&sr=1-25
Mine have proved reliable for two years so far, I have one at FOH and another on stage and the third is on 24/7 from mid March 'till November, protecting my caravan TV and recorder from the dodgy mains on site.

[The Elf]

Doesn't John take out a Kronos? I'm surprised he doesn't have a small ups already .. or does he like to live on the edge..?

The Kronos doesn't leave the studio - but if it did *I* would insist on a UPS!

[MarkPAman]

I'll use a UPS on small / under speced generators to protect the desk, and on the rare occasions when recording is really important.

To be honest, I think I've had more problems with older analogue stuff not liking the mains power than digital.

There was one festival where bits of analogue outboard kept distorting, or turning off, as it got dark & lots more site lighting go switched on. Voltage was going below 200V at times. By the end we'd given up on all gates, comps, & graphics in the rack, and only one effects unit was working.

The Qu-Pac/AR stage box on a small stage, which was powered from the same distro, kept working just fine without any UPS.

[Dave B]

Mark, it's less to do with 'digital', more to do with the manufacturer skimping on the design. As I understand it, the Midas equivalent doesn't seem to have the same sort of issues. I'll leave you to draw your own conclusions..

I suspect that in a lot of cases, people would prefer to buy A+H but finances prevent this. At the moment, the X32 range is _very_ attractively priced. I guess that factors into the equation - that kind of bullet-proof-ness may cost a little more than some want to pay.

[The Elf]

But I found this one for half the price if you can cope with IEC outlets on it...

This one may get a positive reception. Thanks for the pointer.

[MarkPAman]

Fare enough Dave.

I see quite a lot of X32 + box in one combination or another, getting run without a UPS & I'd not really head any reports of problems to make me think it a serious issue, but maybe it is. UK mains is usually very stable!

[Hugh Robjohns]

Tolerance of mains voltage variation is generally much worse on devices with linear power supplies than those with switching mode supplies. The latter are often able to cope with any mains supply from 100-250VAC, whereas a linear supply set for 230VAC may well drop out below 207 if not higher!

H

[Sam Spoons]

Good point Hugh, the X32 PSU can accept 100-240 VAC so brownouts sufficient to cause problems in Europe should simply never happen short of a full on power cut.

[The Elf]

Mark, it's less to do with 'digital', more to do with the manufacturer skimping on the design. As I understand it, the Midas equivalent doesn't seem to have the same sort of issues. I'll leave you to draw your own conclusions.

Got to be honest. I didn't know that there *was* a Midas equivalent - never occurred to me. I'm happy to take a look if they're compatible with the X32?

Edit: No 8 channel version and no jack inputs. The idea was to avoid the phantom power problem.

[Sam Spoons]

FWIW (according to 'Musicgroup' of course) the only differences between the Midas and Berry X/M32s are the faders and mic preamps.

[James Perrett]

Good point Hugh, the X32 PSU can accept 100-240 VAC so brownouts sufficient to cause problems in Europe should simply never happen short of a full on power cut.

It isn't always that simple. Some of these power supplies detect the input voltage when first switched on and go into either 230V mode or 120V mode. As I understand it, they can't switch mode after that initial decision has been made so if the voltage later goes too low for the 230V mode you are in trouble.

It is also possible that different batches of the same model could react in different ways.

[Sam Spoons]

Ah, didn't know that. Mackie refer to their DL 1608 PSU (which is a 'line rat') as a 'world PSU' and I had thought it, and the X32 supply, simply took whatever mains voltage and supplied whatever the device needed.

[James Perrett]

Just had a quick look at the range of worldwide supply voltages and it appears that every country that I could find either lies in the range of 110-127V or 220-240V so a worldwide supply only has to cover those voltage ranges to be worthy of the name.

[AlecSp]

FWIW (according to 'Musicgroup' of course) the only differences between the Midas and Berry X/M32s are the faders and mic preamps.

Along with the build quality, the warranty, the layout and (for some) the rider-acceptability...

[Sam Spoons]

Build quality? Aren't they made in the same factory? Only quoting what Music Group said when they introduced the M32.

The layout is different TBF and that 10 year warrantee is very good (but only fair given the premium price relative to the X32) plus they run 192kHz but that's only firmware I believe.

[Hugh Robjohns]

Build quality? Aren't they made in the same factory? Only quoting what Music Group said when they introduced the M32.

I haven't looked into the internal differences in any detail, but they could be built in the same factory but use different quality parts -- especially for things like faders, encoders, displays etc.

...plus they run 192kHz but that's only firmware I believe.

Again, it might be firmware... but it could also be that the less expensive model uses lower cost converters and DSP chips that don't have the speed to operate at 192.

H

[Sam Spoons]

My understanding when the M32 was introduced was that the only hardware differences between the X32 and M32 we're the aforementioned mic preamps and motor faders. Clearly the casework is also different but other than that........ I have asked the question on the MG X32 forum.

[Studio Support Gnome]

I work on M32 and X32 , My former studio now uses an M32 which doubles as live hire stock, and my semi regular venue has X32 ....

the software is identical in architecture, meaning you can successfully run X32 shows from M32 software on laptop, which is a bonus as it's lots nicer....

I would take the Midas over the X32 any day, of any week ever, it sounds better, it is faster to operate, and based on recent experience, more stable ,

as far as I am aware they share the core DSP architecture, but the converters are different, (thus the sample rate option differences) the pre-amps are different , and the physical layout and control surface feel are very different....

I can drive either, with equal competence....

but i'd rather have a Digico if I MUST have digital desk

other than that
give me an, Audient, or a Neve and I'm a happy man

not picky or anything.....

Santa are you reading this ??

[Dave B]

I spoke to Santa. He says he will consider giving you an Audient or Neve when you no longer own any DDAs. And dumping them in a mate's garage and telling yourself that they don't exist doesn't count!!

[DGL.]

An M32 is an X32 with, PRO faders, PRO series mic pre-amps, better quality input/output stages (inc. AD/DA conversion), better screen (daylight viewable iirc, not higher res) and a nicer 'body'.

Still runs (with the current firmware) at a maximum of 48kHz.