RIAA Preamps still needed?

[twotoedsloth]

Hello,

Sorry for my inexperience, but at work a visiting scholar is requesting a turntable for his guest lecture, so I'm going to have to rent one.

Can anyone please tell me if we will still need an RIAA preamp? I know this was critical in the past, but I honestly have not used a turntable.

Your advice is greatly appreciated.

Peter

[Wonks]

Normally, yes. A cheap turntable with a USB output won't, but anything of any reasonabke quality will almost always expect to be used with an amp either with an internal RIAA preamp, or an external unit. And it will also need to match the cartridge type; moving magnet or moving coil.

[twotoedsloth]

Thanks Wonks.

So a USB output usually won't need an RIAA preamp?

I'm hesitant to invest too much time and money into what is essentially going to be show and tell for stuffy academics and musicologists.

[Sam Spoons]

I hate to say it but the most likely 'professional' solution is a DJ turntable and mixer. It won't satisfy a 'HiFi' buff but has a decent chance of being reliable and interfacing appropriately with the PA system (I know that's not a given but talk to the hire company techies and they should steer you safely through).

[Tim Gillett]

Thanks Wonks.

So a USB output usually won't need an RIAA preamp?

Correct, it should already do the RIAA EQ itself.

[Sam Spoons]

You could probably buy a USB deck for what it would cost to hire a small DJ rig but they are not built for a real live environment. If it's as you describe though it may well be a practical option. I guess it's a judgment call based on the nature of the event........

[DGL.]

I suppose the other option is to find an old Hi-Fi cheap either via ebay or charity shops, something lower end from one of the Japanese manufacturers should be good enough for most uses, esp. in a less then ideal listening environment, and should be fairly kind on the records (in comparison to most cheap modern turntables).

In theory so long as it's got a magnetic cartridge, it's a decent brand and it some way of adjusting the speed (to ensure it's running at the right speed in each speed setting) it should be fine.
Also get a system with either a tape or aux out (or even at a pinch use the H/P out) and an extra RIAA pre-amp is not needed as there will be one already in the Hi-Fi system.

Even one of the "fake separates" systems should be acceptable for most uses.

Plus when you are done with it you can either keep it just in case or sell it on.

[ef37a]

Yes, go for a "DJ" rig with a fairly rugged magnetic cartridge of medium compliance or one of the USB units.

I have just acquired a Rega Planar turntable and arm with an Ortofon cartridge. I had forgotten how very delicate these things are!

Why couldn't the guy have got his stuff duped onto cassette, MDisc or 'puter?!

Dave.

[Mike Stranks]

Many turntables these days - irrespective of USB connectivity - have a built-in RIAA preamp so you can connect direct to a standard line input.

But as Dave says, it does seem a strange request. Not sure that I'd want my vinyl tracked by any old stylus at any old tracking-weight. Each to their own...

[Sam Spoons]

Just what I was thinking, I assumed the 'client' was not precious of his vinyl and was using it more for effect than reproduction.

[Humble Bee]

I would need one of those... Can somebody recommend one not too expensive?

Cheers!

[Sam Spoons]

I'm amazed there isn't an RIAA eq plug-in available (or is there)?

[Wonks]

There are, but if it's going straight into a PA or mixer, then a plug-in won't be much use.

[Sam Spoons]

True, I was assuming HB wanted it for transfer or sampling.

[Wonks]

I was thinking of the OP. But software could be viable for HB.

[Humble Bee]

Thanks folks.

Just one that outputs line level on jacks or rcf...

Ive seen some cheap ones (£30 ish) but im not sure its worth it.

Local hifi shop prices start at about £150 and thats too much at the moment...

I am landing a pro-ject turntable on sunday...

[Wonks]

The RIAA circuitry is fairly simple, so it's more down to the pre-amp bit, and it's not that hard to make a good clean pre-amp these days.

Project do their own pre-amp for MM cartridges for about £50 (they also do more expensive ones that also work with MC cartridges).

https://www.amazon.co.uk/Pro-Ject-Audio-Systems-Phono-Preamplifier/dp/B01NCVTR7V/ref=pd_sbs_23_6?_encoding=UTF8&pd_rd_i=B01NCVTR7V&pd_rd_r=597533e6-2ad3-11e9-a1a1-4f2cd90424c2&pd_rd_w=ritng&pd_rd_wg=KND5G&pf_rd_p=18edf98b-139a-41ee-bb40-d725dd59d1d3&pf_rd_r=A4CZF2CYMGP5Z4NSEQF1&psc=1&refRID=A4CZF2CYMGP5Z4NSEQF1

[Wonks]

ART also make a pre-amp with more controls that can be obtained for a similar price.

http://www.artproaudio.com/product/djpre-ii-phono-preamplifier/

[Mike Stranks]

This https://www.richersounds.com/hi-fi/audio-technica-lp60usb-silver.html any good?

Has USB and direct to line (on-board RIAA) outputs...

Also available in black...

[Wonks]

I think TTS needs to tell us more about the type of lecture and as to why a turntable is needed. If it's some old and rare pressing that needs to be played on the highest quality/least damaging player, or just to show the problems associated with vinyl for those who've never heard it e.g. rumble, hiss, pops, scratches and jumping?

If it's for a DJ type demonstration, then they'll need a direct drive, not belt drive, turntable.

[ef37a]

H,B, I have actually got a Behringer UFO202 which is a variant of the UCA202, a very basic 2 in 2 out, neg ten 16 bit converter. I have had several of the latter and they are quite good enough for duping cassette or vinyl (if you have a hi fig and tt)
The UFO has RIAA corrected phono inputs and at £25 or so it is not going to compare with a Quad pre but I could hook it up to the Rega P if you like and see how it does?

Really depends on how "hi fi" you want or need the disc repro? If you are getting a turntable my preference would be to look at pawn and charity shops for a modest integrated amplifier? You get disc corrected output on tape sockets and TRUE latency free monitoring!

Sony, Marantz, Philips...Denon, never made a bad ANYTHING IMHO!

Dave.

[Humble Bee]

Thanks folks! Sorted!
Sorry for hijacking the thread...

[Tim Gillett]

As a point of interest, sometimes it's best to transfer a disc direct with no RIAA EQ.

The RIAA EQ is only valid at the proper recorded speed. A really warped disc may not play at 33RPM without the stylus jumping out of the groove. Replay at 16RPM or even half again may be the only way to get the stylus to track. Then digitally we can speed the file up to 33 RPM , then perform the RIAA EQ.

[James Perrett]

The only problem with using an input with no equalisation is that it needs to have an input impedance of 47k ohms. If the input impedance is different the pick up cartridge will no longer have a flat frequency response.

[Hugh Robjohns]

A really warped disc may not play at 33RPM without the stylus jumping out of the groove. Replay at 16RPM or even half again may be the only way to get the stylus to track. Then digitally we can speed the file up to 33 RPM , then perform the RIAA EQ.

True, and even stranger things have been done in the name of extreme and specialist archive sound recovery work... But there's obviously a lot more involved than just finding a way to bypass the standard RIAA equalisation and slowing down the turntable! ...As I'm sure you appreciate.

Amongst the other important technical considerations are the cartridge load impedance as James has already pointed out (depending on the specific cartridge being used), vertical tracking angle control, and various low frequency issues including the loss of Low frequency programme audio and frequency-shifted rumble components to mention just two...

H