AES3 to AES59 to OSX DAW and Back

[trunkdog]

I need help in the interfacing of my Sony DMX-R100 console to DAW.
At this point I perfer using MAC OSX and PreSonus StudioOne.
The console is equpped with (3) AES (DMBK-R103) expansion cards but this could be TDIF or MADI. I would prefer to use the AES for cost effectiveness.

It seems I am the only cowboy looking for a "Bidirectional AES59 Interface for OSX" device.
No shortage of audio interfaces out there with AD/DA convertors…

What, if anything, prevents the A&H ICE-16D from performing this function? I realize the spec says analog but isn't AES59, well, AES59? (Manufacture implementation exceptions noted)

(…damn I hate HTML5, iOS, etc incompatability as I try to type here; hence I can not expect to express cogent thought through the ether. Give me 300 baud and a BBS; but I digress)

Perhaps I need (2) of these:

https://pro.focusrite.com/category/audi ... ednet-d16r

But then I can't fathom the price point. I guess I'd be paying for the "novelty" of AOIP.

Thanks for listening.

EDIT: http://tascam.com/content/downloads/pro ... Pinout.pdf

So its the Analog pinout that prevents its use in my scenario.
Or does "Analog 5-8" simply become "Digital Out 1-4"?

[Hugh Robjohns]

It seems I am the only cowboy looking for a "Bidirectional AES59 Interface for OSX" device.

I'm not surprised...

AES59 is just four AES3 connections (in each direction) wired to a 25-pin D-sub connector

If you can use internal PCIe cards in your mac, then the RME HSDPe AES cards would do a nice job indeed with 16 channels in and out.

http://www.rme-audio.de/en/products/hdspe_aes.php

If you need an external interface AND a lot of channels, I'd go the MADI route from the console into an RME MADiface USB or similar.

http://www.rme-audio.de/en/products/madiface_usb.php

Alternatively, get an AES3 to ADAT Lightpipe converter like the RME ADi-4DD and then any interface that supports the ADAT Interface, which is most of the larger (in channel-count) ones.

http://www.rme-audio.de/en/products/adi_4_dd.php

What, if anything, prevents the A&H ICE-16D from performing this function? I realize the spec says analog but isn't AES59, well, AES59? (Manufacture implementation exceptions noted)

AES59 is a standardised set of wiring configurations for the 25-pin Dsub connector. It can carry either eight channels of balanced analogue in a single direction, or four channels of AES3 in both directions. It doesn't convert analogue to digital (or vice versa), it is just a physical connection format.

Perhaps I need (2) of these: < rednet-d16r >

Yes, you could certainly go down the Dante route, if you want, but it's really just an alternative to MADI in this instance... and if you want minimal latency you'll need to add a hardware Dante card in the computer, rather than relying on the free virtual software Dante decoder.

So you'll need to price up the hardware options for both the Dante and MADI approaches and see which is the most cost effective -- taking into account any future expansion you might have in the back of your mind...

So its the Analog pinout that prevents its use in my scenario.
Or does "Analog 5-8" simply become "Digital Out 1-4"?

The 25-pin Dsub is wired to carry eight balanced connections. That's it. End of story...

Those eight balanced connections can either be used to carry eight balanced analogue audio signals in one direction (eg, eight balanced analogue outputs or eight balanced analogue inputs -- for an analogue device), or the same plug (but with different types of cables and connectors on the end) could be used to convey four AES3 stereo outputs and four AES3 stereo inputs for a digital device.

H

[trunkdog]

Thanks for the response Hugh. I'll continue the research specifically looking at the links you provided. I realize MADI would be my best approach is just that sourcing that card for the DMX is pretty scarce. I do see a posting for three TDIF expansion cards. I was just hoping to be able to use the 3 AES cards that are in the DMX now.

[Hugh Robjohns]

If memory serves each card has eight channels in and out, so you need a 24 channel conversion of one form or another. Three RME ADI4DD boxes to convert AES to ADAT optical, and the RME Digiface USB box for ADT to USB into the computervwould do it neatly and reliably...

(and the ADI4DD has an AES59 socket on the back!)

H

[trunkdog]

Thanks again Hugh. I'm now sourcing the components…used! Would you suggest breakout AES snakes or something like the RME BOB-32?

http://www.networksound.com/index.php/p ... /xlr32db25

[Hugh Robjohns]

There's no point putting extra connections in the signal path unless you need the ability to patch AES3 signals independently. I'd use ordinary AES3 to AES59 dSub cables to go between the desk and the ADI4s, and then light pipes from there to the digiface, and USB into the 'pooter.

H

[trunkdog]

Understood. The routing flexibility of the DMX pretty much eliminates patching.

[Hugh Robjohns]

Yes, it's a lovely console. One of my favourite digital desks and still popular for live-to-stereo and post-mixing classical work.

https://www.soundonsound.com/reviews/sony-dmx-r100-v2

[trunkdog]

And trust me, I read your review prior to purchasing!

[trunkdog]

Does this unit actially provide 56 AES3 I/O with MADI support?

Euphonix FC726

[Hugh Robjohns]

It converts a variety of digital input formats to (56 channel) MADI, and MADI to a variety of digital formats, all with selectable sample rate conversion. It was a very powerful converter in its day... There's still plenty of stuff about it on the web, including reviews, applications, and manuals.

However, the 25-pin D-sub connectors that carry the AES3 inputs and outputs are not wired to the AES59 standard. Euphonix invented their own unique wiring arrangement, putting the eight AES3 pairs on entirely different pins, rendering the connector not directly compatible with either AES59 or the Yamaha arrangement.

This means you will need to have custom conversion or break-out cables made up. Not difficult... but it will add to the expense.

H

[trunkdog]

Thanks Hugh, that's what I gathered from the manual; just wanted your expertise and confirmation on that. Apparently I have a viable ($$$) solution. Let me break out the soldering iron!

[trunkdog]

So I've nixed this plan and intend to go all digital with full recall.

https://www.soundonsound.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=15&t=65144&p=591035#p591035

That leaves me with. Sony DMX-R100 for sale.

[trunkdog]

For the record, here are possible solutions to go from AES59 to the computer:

RedNet D16R MkII (AES59x2)

Apogee Symphony I/O Mk II 8x8 - Thunderbolt with expansion:
Apogee 8x8S2 - Symphony I/O Module (AES59x2)

JoeCo BBR1D BlackBox 24 Track Recorder - AES/EBU DB25 I/O (AES59x3)

HTH

[forumuser840717]

Don't forget the Merging Technologies Horus The base unit of which has 24 channels of AES/EBU in and out, a single MADI i/o on optical or coaxial connectors (plus the option for a second MADI i/o card, Ravenna/AES67 i/o. And six i/o expansion card slots for which there are a variety of 8 channel mic/line input, 8 channel mic/line input/line output, line output option cards and a 64 channel Protools HD interface. It's not exactly cheap but it is very flexible and offers extremely high quality sound.

In a similar vein there's the DirectOut Technologies Prodigy.MC. Another 2U rack mounting frame, with less i/o built into the frame than the Horus has, but with 8x 8 channel expansion slots taking a wider variety of option cards for analogue mic and/or line or digital i/o and more configurable network/multichannel digital i/o on the frame via any two of MADI, Dante, Ravenna/AES67, Soundgrid. And again, very high quality sound and build.

Also the Digital Audio Denmark AX32. Again, a 2U rackmount box, this time with 16 channels of AES/EBU i/o and 6x 8 channel expansion card slots for which DAD offer 8 channel cards for line in mic/line in, line out, Dual SDI/HD/3G 2x16chan embed/de-embed, 16chan AES/EBU i/o, Dual MADI 128chan i/o, and the option of expanding the mainframe i/o with 64 chan Dante and 2x 64 channel MADI i/o. They also do a 128 channel Speaker Processing DSP card for doing room correction. And it's another unit with top quality sound and excellent build quality.

And, recently, Prism threw their hat into this particular ring with their ADA-128 (SOS Preview ). On paper, this is an even more flexible unit with 4 frame option slots and 16 i/o option slots but with a (currently) more limited range of option cards than offered by some of the others above. Unlike those above, I haven't yet heard/tried it but, knowing Prism products, I'd be very surprised if it's not well up there with the best of the best.

[trunkdog]

Thx 840717, now that’s a response!
I’ll look into these, specifically the Horus.
Can you say if any of these can / will offer 32 I/O via AES59, i.e. (4) DB25?

[forumuser840717]

This is a bit fiddly as the possibilities offered by the various frames and i/o cards differs from manufacturer to manufacturer.

The Horus won't do 32 on its own. Its frame has 24 mono channels of audio over AES/EBU, (so 12 AES/EBU streams in and out), on three DB25 connectors. Merging don't offer an AES/EBU option card for the expansion slots so 24 is it. The only way to do 32 with the Merging kit would be to add a second frame, e.g. a Merging Hapi which has one AES/EBU DB25 i/o on its frame plus an ADAT optical i/o and two expansion slots (or another Horus).

The DirectOut Prodigy.MC has no AES/EBU i/o on its main frame but they do offer a suitable expansion card so, in theory, it could be expanded with up to 8 AES/EBU cards for 64 channels of i/o. They also do an AES/EBU card with built in hardware SRC.

The DAD AX32 has two AES/EBU DB25 connectors on its frame (so 16 mono channels i/o) and has the option of AES/EBU i/o cards in the expansion slots for more i/o. (I forgot to mention that though it has 8 expansion slots, two of them are currently reserved/unusued so it only has 6 useable slots - not sure what that's about.)

The ADA-128 doesn't have any AES/EBU i/o built into the frame but it could have (I think) up to 16 AES/EBU i/o cards in its option slots, for 128 i/o.

[trunkdog]

@forumuser840717,
Perfect. I am amazed at the depth of your knowledge, the speed of your responses and your willingness to assist! Karma…