Who else uses layered reverbs ie more than one verb on a single sound?

[Dr Huge Longjohns]

Watched this vid by our very own esteemed Zukan. This technique of using three verbs all at once on eg a single vocal is not something I've ever tried but will be giving it a go asap. Anybody else do this as a matter of course?

https://www.samplecraze.com/tutorials/wrapping-reverbs/

[Martin Walker]

The Elf certainly does, as he's discussed in a previous thread here on the forums.

(I'll post a link if I can find it again)

Martin

[Folderol]

I do occasionally.

[Martin Walker]

Here you go, pointing to the first post on this topic from The Elf:

https://www.soundonsound.com/forum/view ... 90#p583657

Martin

[forumuser840717]

I often use two, three or even more reverbs but it depends what it is that I'm mixing.

On simple/purist things it might be no digital trickery at all or just a convolution or very clean algorithmic reverb over the mix but on bigger, more complex things with lots of layers or where some depth has to be faked in to the mix, it could involve two, three, or more reverbs, and possibly a mixture of algorithmic and convolution reverbs - or even old school acoustic reverb chanbers or plates. The main thing for me is to make sure that, if they're not just there to produce pure "effect(s)" on a specific sound, say a snare or vocal, they add up to produce a convincingly real soundstage rather than just an aurally confusing/tiring mess.

I tend to find that for bedding things into mixes, algorithmic reverbs work best whereas convolutions can be hard to blend in, tending to remain as separate, pasted-on entities but for adding reverb to a finished mix, particularly a very pure/clear/simple mix, something convolutiony is often better. For stand out effect work it could be either. Everyone is different, though, and whatever works is good.

[Dr Huge Longjohns]

No, sorry, obviously didn't make myself clear. I'm talking about using 3 verbs on a single source eg the lead vocal. See the Zukan video I linked to, where on the lead vocal, he uses a short plate with no predelay, then a hall with a short predelay, followed by a smaller hall with a long predelay. So all 3 are on the voice in series, blended together to give a very pleasing result.

So I'm not talking about using a selection of different verbs across the mix which, I guess, most of us do as a matter of course almost.

[Folderol]

Yep. That's what I thought you meant, and as I said, I do occasionally.

[Dr Huge Longjohns]

How do you use them, what kinds of reverb do you use and on what sources? And have you or any member of your family ever been a member of the communist party?

[Martin Walker]

OK Dr Huge - here's the same thread a little further on where multiple reverbs on one source ARE specifically mentioned

https://www.soundonsound.com/forum/view ... 90#p583869

Martin

[Dr Huge Longjohns]

Ah yes, that's the video I referenced too. Seems to be quite a rare thing to do?

[Sam Inglis]

I will often have multiple reverbs set up in a mix and will send some sources to more than one of them. I'll also put a delay in series with a reverb. Don't think I have ever used two or three reverbs in series, though.

[Dr Huge Longjohns]

Interestingly, in Logic, some of the preset instrument settings come with two reverbs patched in, often a small ambience plus a hall, say.

[The Elf]

As Martin says, I do use multiple reverbs as a matter of course. On the latest mix, for instance I'm adding a bit of the snare's plate to toms, and then sending the toms to a chamber to create more LF 'bloom'. Just one example...

[Guest]

I print effects to the track so I will add one reverb and then change the settings slightly and print it again. I rarely use three though.

[Soundpact]

I usually use two or three types of layered reverbs and automate them: a short type in verses, medium in bridges and large in choruses and solos. Not on all instruments of course, it depends on the track, style, etc.

[DC-Choppah]

After trying to copy what I hear on my favorite records, I have learned a nice technique that involves multiple reverbs on single sources. My favorite sounding records are recorded in nice recording studios, with each instrument having its own room. Piano in the piano room, drums in the drum room, etc. But each room sounds really nice.

Meanwhile, I record all the same pieces in a dead room.

So I apply a convolution reverb to the dead source to make it sound like it was recorded in a nice room. Each one is different to mimic the studio and room I have in mind.

Now I have sources that sound like they were recorded in nice, different rooms. But then I can hear that the piano had its own plate reverb that made the notes sizzle and ring. But the drums had a different reverb that was darker and shorter. So each piece gets its own effect reverb and that puts it in its own personal 'space' partially real from the room, but partially effect. So that's two on each.

But I am just trying to recreate what I hear and like.

Thanks to Mr Hancock for showing us how they get it to sound so good: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eWd9_vnNM7A

[awjoe]

What Mr Choppah says makes the most sense to me, but really I'm in the dark on this one. So a modest question is in order maybe: What's the point of using more than one reverb on a vocal, for instance?

And if the answer is 'Because it sounds good,' then my next question is 'Is that because two reverbs have more reflections than one reverb, so it's more natural?'

[Terrible.dee]

A well know producer taught me to use dual reverbs.

The point was to create definition though spacial ambiance, a vocal that's closer than the guitar might take 10% of the short reverb and 5% of the pre-delayed long reverb, the guitar might take the reverse amount.

He would also pan reverbs, so instead of panning the instruments, he'd be panning the verbs the instruments were sent to.

I get what he was teaching me in concept, but at the end of the day, I (And I suggest you) need to be true to your ears.....and for me.....reverb sucks, I just don't like it unless it's REAL ambiance recorded by a room mic.

I think digital reverb sounds like a$$.......no matter how many you use, why you use them or where they are panned.

[The Elf]

What's the point of using more than one reverb on a vocal, for instance?'

Because each adds a character that your ears like. I may use a shorter plate for sizzle, but also a longer hall to create space. Making a vocalist sound like his voice is bouncing off the most distant part of the mix all helps the illusion of space and depth.

It's really the kind of thing that you have to hear to understand properly. I often go into this in my 1-2-1s and once the penny drops I find most people binge on it!

Don't know how anyone mixes without reverb - for me it would be like to trying to paint landscapes without using the colour green!

[Dr Huge Longjohns]

It’s not uncommon to dislike artificial reverb. Jeff lynne immediately springs to mind. He’s produced a hit or two. You

[CS70]

I seldom use more than one reverb on a single track (plus a send to the general reverb) but almost always, on vocals, use one or two delays in series after the reverb. with reverb-like setting, simply because I tend to like the results better and find them more predictable to set up.

As the Elf says, beyond the basic "making a room" space and glue with early reflection, predelay and EQ shaping, it's only all about creating a timbre you like. By adding reverbs and short delays you're simply filtering the original track, which changes its timbre a little, especially from mid-highs, often in a nice way.

[Matt Houghton]

I can't say I've tried the Zukan method on purpose... Must give it a whirl.

Though I do find that:

(a) I typically use lots of reverb and delay sends in a (typically rock or pop) mix, and automate the send levels a lot;

(b) I'll often feed delays into reverbs (and sometimes vice versa); and

(c) I often do use a couple of different reverbs in series on a snare drum... eg an ambience patch to flesh out the basic sound a bit, and then a plate to help put it where I want it in the mix. The former is kinda tone-shaping, and will probably be an insert, with further processing of the whole sound down the line. The latter will be a send that's routed back to the drum bus. And of course there may be other 'reverbs' in the form of room mics/PZMs etc. But I'm not consciously buliding up a 'reverb patch' from these different elements... I'm just doing different things to the sound at different points in a mix...

[Drew Stephenson]

Very interesting reading all the responses here. I'll frequently put a reverb on a source (vocal or drums for example) before sending it to the main room/space reverb (as most people appear to do) but that tends to be it. I'm not a huge fan of heavily processed vocals unless it's for a specific effect. I'll frequently have a heavily mangled effect channel that i'll automate lots of different stuff to at different places in a mix. It seems, to me, to give a coherence to the effects without making them the same.
If that makes sense.

[The Elf]

I'm not a huge fan of heavily processed vocals unless it's for a specific effect.

For me that's a big part of it. No matter how I treat the vocals they have to sound effortless - as if they are simply *meant* to sound that way. If it sounds obviously forced I'll try something else.

But in pursuit of this ideal I will throw whatever I feel is needed at it!

[forumuser907531]

This is standard practice for me, with 8 sends I run them to every effect I have available and then mix them all up. I run a hybrid setup, all the instruments are outboard, and almost all of the processors and effects are also outboard. I'm using Reason 10 (i must be a masochist, i know) however, I have a limited amount of resources and space. The three "crown jewels" are a Lexicon 480L, a Lexicon PCM70, and an Eventide H3000. Close to these three, is an aging and possibly slowly dying TC 2290 delay which gets used on multiple instruments on one send on every song I create. There is a Sony HR MP5 that's actually really great on entire kits (obviously with only a touch of kick in there) using modified "wooden room" presets, an combined with the "tiled room" from the Lexicon, it makes for a great combo. I also use my EPS 16+ sampler as an effects unit since it will accept a mono-in/stereo out signal for a really unique and subtle reverb....plus several Eventide and Strymon pedals that are really great at what they do!

Using those 8 sends, I have to work with just the 8 units i possess, although i have many more inputs so getting all the effects back into reason usually comes back in on an audio channel (I've got the 2 stereo outputs from 480l, 1 stereo output from PCM70, 1 stereo output from EPS16+, 1 stereo output from the H3000, 1 stereo output from the H9, 1 stereo output from each the Strymon Deco and the Strymon ElCapistan, and 1 stereo output from the Ibanez SC10 pedal....along with 1 stereo output from the Sony HR-MP5. I have an interesting ADA "1 second digital delay", that really does sound like a bucket brigade delay once you take the time to max...that's mono in/mono out

That means I've got 10 processors for 8 aux sends...so I get to chose if I want to chain effects, and many of the older effects I've got are mono-in/stereo-out, so for example, using the ADA with mono out, I can send that to any processor that has a mono in...the Deco is a favorite, as you get super wide delays as well as the ability to run the distortion in the feedback path of the delay! having just the 8 stereo sends from Reason is huge fun, as of course you can use the L and R cables separately and have two mono in/stereo out processors, doing their thing when you enable that send.

Great fun to be had using different verbs, or verbs on top of verbs, or delay into verb or parallel with it as they both die off together.