Windows 7's impending death

[ef37a]

OS's really do not need much more in the way of improvements.

Not sure about that...

For audio we really need an efficient real time operating system that can handle multiple incoming and outgoing data streams in a timely and predictable way. While MS and Apple have tried to achieve this with their general purpose desktop operating systems I think these things only really work because of the sheer computing power that we have available these days. We really shouldn't have to run tools like the DPC latency checker to get our programs to work these days.

"Once apon a time, long ago the Great Fathers of audio/music electronics came together for a pow-wow and LO! MIDI was born!
I have no idea how possible this is but IF the big boys in the music industry, RME, Focusrite, Roland etc and said, "**** you Ms and Apple! We are going to develop a proper, musicically oriented OS". Could it be done?

Dave.

[tonemangler]

To the OP - don't be too scared of Windows 10. It is a much smaller jump from Windows 7 to Windows 10 than it was from Windows XP to Windows 7. If you really don't want to make the jump then you could always get a cheap Windows 10 computer for internet browsing and carry on using the Windows 7 machine for music disconnected from the Internet.

Actually, my laptop is the one I am referring to, which is used mainly for banking and other net stuff. I am building a new studio PC so I will have to go the Win 10 route for that. The thing I'm most concerned about are the Win updates, which I've heard can wreak havoc. I'm building a system with the intention of using a thunderbolt AI (Clarett 4Pre) and I've heard stories of Win 10 updates giving problems with the thunderbolt connection. I'll have to do research on optimizing a Win 10 PC with regards to the updates, there must be a way to mitigate the damage. Actually I recently read an article detailing how Microsoft is planning to change the way they handle updates, if after a new update installs and the OS detects conflicts or hardware issues then it will automatically revert to the previous update, at least that is how I understood the article.

To be honest, I prefer having my studio PC connected to the internet. Back in my WinXP days I used an offline system and it was tedious downloading and authorizing software from one computer to another, once I came online it made the task so much easier! Of course if I ever decide to never buy new software (not likely) the offline method would be the best!

[Mixedup]

Wonder if the NHS have moved on from XP since that cyber attack... I bet they went for 7

[Watchmaker]

OS's really do not need much more in the way of improvements.

Not sure about that...

For audio we really need an efficient real time operating system that can handle multiple incoming and outgoing data streams in a timely and predictable way. While MS and Apple have tried to achieve this with their general purpose desktop operating systems I think these things only really work because of the sheer computing power that we have available these days. We really shouldn't have to run tools like the DPC latency checker to get our programs to work these days.

Fair point. I'd much rather see developer time go to IO improvements that than to yet another game or instant communication with grandma widget but its a tiny minority who prefer quality in the electrical/software engineering over social engineering in their computing experience. also as CS70 notes, the architecture issues are a problem as the path chosen has a massive amount of commitment behind it. I think speculative execution is a prime example of the law of unintended negative consequences.

Dave's comment about music industry designers coming up with an OS - it's always possible but the adoption rate would probably be too low to support development and you'd have to work with hardware teams to build out a supporting chipset.

Until the next disruptive iteration we're stuck with the existing paradigm...perhaps?

[Drew Stephenson]

I plan to upgrade rather than clean install.

Most of the reports of problems have been from people who have upgraded. Clean installs seem more reliable..

That's what I feared James. The thought of reinstalling everything is daunting.

I went the upgrade route on my desktop and laptop and the only hitch was having to use another installation license for my focusrite software - something that has persisted with every major OS update since. Fortunately focusrite have been completely cool about it and just re-zero'd my account whenever I've hit a buffer. Generally in less than 24 hours as well.

[scw]

Thanks for the reassurance Drew!

[OneWorld]

Wonder if the NHS have moved on from XP since that cyber attack... I bet they went for 7

I cannot claim this is a global, but during my time in the public sector - a lot of IT experts were hired not because of their IT knowledge but whether they could quote from Das Kaptital and prove their allegiance to political correctitude.

I went through a full 30 minutes interview where I was interrogated on my knowledge of diversity, my soft skills, problem solving (eg there's a fire what do I do, a) tell everyone to log off, collect their belongings etc, b) phone their family to tell them they love them c) blame the tories) and I had to do a presentation on any subject I liked but not my IT skills as the interviewers were HR people and not IT people.

During the whole interview I was not asked one single question about my IT knowledge/skills apart from "Are you familiar with MS Office?" although my main responsibility was coding. I was told don't bother, the interviewers don't have a clue regarding coding.

[OneWorld]

I plan to upgrade rather than clean install.

Most of the reports of problems have been from people who have upgraded. Clean installs seem more reliable. I've used an ancient MOTU MIDI interface on Windows 10 with no problems but haven't tried my M-Audio 2x2 midi interface.

ironically I had an old Steinberg Midex 8x8 and it's spot on!

That's interesting . I think I have an old Midex lying around. I could never get it to work well with W7!

Did you download the latest driver - it is not a WIn10 driver from the Steinberg site, but if memory serves me right it is Win7/64, it is some years since I downloaded and installed, haven't needed to look at it since it was installed - it just worked. Only a tiny file, has its own installer and goes on with a minute or so.

[Matt Houghton]

Wonder if the NHS have moved on from XP since that cyber attack... I bet they went for 7

I cannot claim this is a global, but during my time in the public sector - a lot of IT experts were hired not because of their IT knowledge but whether they could quote from Das Kaptital and prove their allegiance to political correctitude.

I went through a full 30 minutes interview where I was interrogated on my knowledge of diversity, my soft skills, problem solving (eg there's a fire what do I do, a) tell everyone to log off, collect their belongings etc, b) phone their family to tell them they love them c) blame the tories) and I had to do a presentation on any subject I liked but not my IT skills as the interviewers were HR people and not IT people.

During the whole interview I was not asked one single question about my IT knowledge/skills apart from "Are you familiar with MS Office?" although my main responsibility was coding. I was told don't bother, the interviewers don't have a clue regarding coding.

That's funny... during *my* time in the public sector I encountered an awful lot of IT professionals who clearly had no idea about diversity or 'soft skills'; if what you say is true, I can only conclude that successful applicants were drawn out of a hat

[CS70]

That's funny... during *my* time in the public sector I encountered an awful lot of IT professionals who clearly had no idea about diversity or 'soft skills'; if what you say is true, I can only conclude that successful applicants were drawn out of a hat

Indeed, and very often nowadays there's separate interview stages for checking different types of skills.

That said, the very idea of "interview" is very overrated. Tests are much better predictors of actual performance (can't be bothered with sources but there's a host of very good ones a google search away). But of course it goes the idea that a single person can magically understand another one in half an hour or so..

[ef37a]

The revelation that interviews in gvmt posts are done by HR personell and do not include tests by the person's peers is frightening and perhaps is an answer as to why the country is run by 'king idiots?

In my service career I have been quizzed intenesly about circuit operations and had to sit a written exam for Rumbelows! (serves me right) . I have also been asked on several occasions to put faults on pieces of equipment for the candidate to attempt to find. (ever tried to "blow up" a 2W MF resistor so it don't show? Tricky!)

Dave.

[The Elf]

I've put off changing my DAW PC to W10 for fear of running into problems with the DAW and the other installed software like NI Komplete etc. I've got so much stuff on it that I couldn't face a disaster.

I've upgraded multiple PCs, audio and otherwise, to Win10. No problems to speak of, beyond having to download a few newer drivers.

Don't do ANYTHING until you have a reliable (i.e. check it!) image copy of your system drive!

[OneWorld]

The revelation that interviews in gvmt posts are done by HR personell and do not include tests by the person's peers is frightening and perhaps is an answer as to why the country is run by 'king idiots?

In my service career I have been quizzed intenesly about circuit operations and had to sit a written exam for Rumbelows! (serves me right) . I have also been asked on several occasions to put faults on pieces of equipment for the candidate to attempt to find. (ever tried to "blow up" a 2W MF resistor so it don't show? Tricky!)

Dave.

The name Diane Flabbot springs to mind -

"now how much will 30,000 extra police officers cost?"

"Erm, .......erm.........erm.........£300,000"

"Sure about that? You're going to pay them £10.00 each?"

"Erm no....erm.....erm.....erm........£5,000,000.....yep"

"Sure?

"Erm.......erm.......erm......."£10,000,000"

"You don't know do you?"

"Erm.......erm......erm.....well of course I don't have the exact figures in front of me yet"

Classic! The gift that keeps on giving.

[OneWorld]

Don't do ANYTHING until you have a reliable (i.e. check it!) image copy of your system drive!

That's for sure - measure twice cut once!

[scw]

Don't do ANYTHING until you have a reliable (i.e. check it!) image copy of your system drive!

Top advice Elf!
Glad to hear that you had no issues.

Stewart

[ef37a]

HUGE PC numpty asking here!
How do you check an image please? I have done them for my PCs (onto external drives) but if I ran one and it did not work am I not stuffed?

Dave.

[The Elf]

Some backup software has a 'verify' feature, but I wouldn't trust that explicitly. Recover to a different drive and see if that works.

[Matt Houghton]

The revelation that interviews in gvmt posts are done by HR personell and do not include tests by the person's peers is frightening...

It's also untrue. HR professionals are there to ensure due process is carried out. Eg to guard against nepotism and to ensure that it's possible to get certain jobs without having been educated in certain schools/universtities, or belonging to specific gentlemen's clubs. They are not the ones making the decisions on the hiring and firing. Typically there'd be a panel including either a line manager and or a more senior manager. Depending on the type of job in question there'd also be tests. At least, that was my experience of the NHS, DH and Cabinet Office... though that's at least a decade and a half ago now.

Anyway, we digress...

[ef37a]

The revelation that interviews in gvmt posts are done by HR personell and do not include tests by the person's peers is frightening...

It's also untrue. HR professionals are there to ensure due process is carried out. Eg to guard against nepotism and to ensure that it's possible to get certain jobs without having been educated in certain schools/universtities, or belonging to specific gentlemen's clubs. They are not the ones making the decisions on the hiring and firing. Typically there'd be a panel including either a line manager and or a more senior manager. Depending on the type of job in question there'd also be tests. At least, that was my experience of the NHS, DH and Cabinet Office... though that's at least a decade and a half ago now.

Anyway, we digress...

Ok Matt but, I am sure it happens incredibly rarely in practice but we do hear of cases of people getting quite senior medical posts in hospitals without qualifications?

Dave.

[Mike Stranks]

The revelation that interviews in gvmt posts are done by HR personell and do not include tests by the person's peers is frightening...

It's also untrue. HR professionals are there to ensure due process is carried out. Eg to guard against nepotism and to ensure that it's possible to get certain jobs without having been educated in certain schools/universtities, or belonging to specific gentlemen's clubs. They are not the ones making the decisions on the hiring and firing. Typically there'd be a panel including either a line manager and or a more senior manager. Depending on the type of job in question there'd also be tests. At least, that was my experience of the NHS, DH and Cabinet Office... though that's at least a decade and a half ago now.

Anyway, we digress...

Ok Matt but, I am sure it happens incredibly rarely in practice but we do hear of cases of people getting quite senior medical posts in hospitals without qualifications?

Dave.

Point one: I have been part of numerous interview panels in both the NHS and other government departments - and in commercial companies. On each occasion the presence of an HR person was to ensure fair-play as Matt has described. For technical posts there were usually practical tests to ensure competence - eg 'fix this broken computer.' Later in my NHS career I was asked to travel to different parts of the country to be a member of interview panels to ensure that there was a genuine disinterested person present who didn't know anyone - including any of my fellow-interviewers.

Point two: I and colleagues were stunned when we discovered that a colleague who'd successfully been promoted to another job in another part of the country had lied about qualifications and had forged documents to boost his profile. When he was discovered after about a year it was instant dismissal and a significant jail term. This was a non-medical post. Yes; some people do slip through, but given the number of people employed it is a very very small percentage.

Anecdote is not normative.

[Watchmaker]

...to ensure that it's possible to get certain jobs without having been educated in certain schools/universtities, or belonging to specific gentlemen's clubs....

I am now working at one of America's "Ivy League" Schools and I'm pretty sure HR is there to make sure that you DO "belong." Or rather, that you exhibit a set of cultural markers acceptable to the group psychology. I've long believed interviews are merely personality tests designed to see whether you're "a good fit," rather than competent. I also worked for the co-founder of MS, Paul Allen, and that culture was errr, ahhh...ummm, interesting.

I believe the vast majority of the crapification of computing devices is directly due to entrenched narcissism supported by vast seas of sycophancy and an inexplicable allegiance to hierarchy. Given that organizational culture has a huge impact on the quality of production, it's no wonder that the organizations most prone to hagiographic cults of personality are the ones with the worst products.

[Mike Stranks]

I believe the vast majority of the crapification of computing devices is directly due to entrenched narcissism supported by vast seas of sycophancy and an inexplicable allegiance to hierarchy. Given that organizational culture has a huge impact on the quality of production, it's no wonder that the organizations most prone to hagiographic cults of personality are the ones with the worst products.

Eh?

[OneWorld]

I believe the vast majority of the crapification of computing devices is directly due to entrenched narcissism supported by vast seas of sycophancy and an inexplicable allegiance to hierarchy. Given that organizational culture has a huge impact on the quality of production, it's no wonder that the organizations most prone to hagiographic cults of personality are the ones with the worst products.

Eh?

Looks like HR talk to me!

[OneWorld]

OS's really do not need much more in the way of improvements.

Not sure about that...

For audio we really need an efficient real time operating system that can handle multiple incoming and outgoing data streams in a timely and predictable way. While MS and Apple have tried to achieve this with their general purpose desktop operating systems I think these things only really work because of the sheer computing power that we have available these days. We really shouldn't have to run tools like the DPC latency checker to get our programs to work these days.

"Once apon a time, long ago the Great Fathers of audio/music electronics came together for a pow-wow and LO! MIDI was born!
I have no idea how possible this is but IF the big boys in the music industry, RME, Focusrite, Roland etc and said, "**** you Ms and Apple! We are going to develop a proper, musicically oriented OS". Could it be done?

Dave.

What became of BEOS, the answer to the media industry's prayers

[Watchmaker]

Eh?

I mean too much ass kissing by middle management to get anything worthwhile done.