pa speakers for 500 people

[dennisgamalej]

Hey guys,
i do sound for a 5 member punk-rock band. We start to have big concerts so our pa is not enought with 124 spl each speaker. Now we have concerts for about 500 people outside and inside. Cane someone recommend speakers on normal price? Yamaha dzr315 is toooo expensive. I was thinking about fame emperor15 with 136db spl. Which subs are okey?
Thnx with greets

[James Perrett]

It would probably make more sense to contact a local PA company and let them handle the sound. When you move up to that size venue you are going to need some serious kit and someone to operate it.

[dennisgamalej]

thnx:) but yamaha dzr315 with good 18Inch subs can handel it right?

[Sam Spoons]

I agree with James, hire in a rig and engineer who is familiar with it.

IMHO the DZR rig would be a minimum for a punk band (i.e. loud) in a 500 seat venue. They cost more than 5 times the price of Fame speakers you suggest. I couldn't find a quoted max SPL but they might claim 136 dB SPL, I'd be astonished if they delivered.

FWIW a rig comprising 2 x DZR 315s and 2 x DXS 18s would cost €7718 from Thomann as I type.

[Wonks]

For true punk values, you need an old HH 100W PA system and just turn everything up as loud as you can.

[MarkPAman]

The Yamaha maybe enough indoors - but you said you couldn't afford those. And the other system is not the same!

The figures give for the Frame stuff is roughly on a par with my own larger system as far as maximum levels quoted goes, (though I trust the figures for my RCF TT+ a little more) and I'd not want to try punk volumes to 500 people inside with that, let alone outside.

If I were looking to buy a new system to do a good job for 500 outside (which I'm not), I suspect I'd be looking to spend at least double the cost of that Yamaha....

I do work with some old "original" punks from time to time, and tend to hire/borrow a rather nice old school 4 way ASS system, which, while lacking the fidelity we have become used to these days, is loud and sounds right for punk!

Last time I gave them some very good modern monitors and the singer asked me to turn them down, which the bass player says has never happened before! Small win for me I think

[Wonks]

Those Fame Emperor 15s are wonderfully efficient if those figures are true. They have an 450W RMS amp, so that's an additional 26dB over the base speaker efficiency value. That makes the 1W SPL figure 110dB. So I really don't believe that 136dB figure (Music Store have an awful lot of typos in their specifications sections). More likely to have a comparable loudness to other speakers quoting a 124-126dB max. SPL.

And if you are going for subs, then I'd be looking at 12" mains, not 15". The subs will be doing all the low-end work anyway, so you don't need all the low-end extension of the 15" speakers, and 12" drivers sound better on vocals than 15" drivers.

[Sam Spoons]

If you do find the budget for the Yamaha DZRs you will have an extremely competent system and, while I would also usually recommend 12" tops with subs, the DZR315 is a three way system which should avoid the compromises a 15"+H two way system has WRT vocals. The cost of that extra 4dB SPL between the DZR315 and the DZR12 is around £400 a box so a, not insubstantial, £800 saving on the rig if you went for DZR12s and a couple of subs. Might be just enough for 500+ punters outside but probably not if you need it really loud.

I'm not sure if we have arrived at an available budget in another thread but it really would be useful to know, if your absolute max budget is £1200 there is no point in discussing a DZR/DXS rig at over £7k even if it might be the best choice for you needs (budget aside). So tell us what you have to spend and we'll suggest rigs that supply the best bang for your bucks.

'Fame' do a full rig for £1250 but I'll bet it is not a patch on even a single pair of DXR10s for £50 more.

[Mike Stranks]

Fame is Music Store's/dv247's 'own brand' budget gear - a bit like Thomann with t.bone and 'the box'.

To compare them with the referenced Yamahas is a pointless exercise. Specs won't tell you what a speaker sounds like. If you heard the Fames next to the Yamahas you would tell immediately why one cost so much more than the other. The other problem is that there is no standard definition for speccing speakers. What appears to be the same could in fact be very different.

To play punk for audiences of 500 you're going to need to spend a lot of money and factor in the costs of transport too. You can buy cheap, but you'll buy often!

[AlecSp]

Hey guys,
i do sound for a 5 member punk-rock band. We start to have big concerts so our pa is not enought with 124 spl each speaker. Now we have concerts for about 500 people outside and inside.

I completely agree with all the rest - 500 people inside and, even more inside, you use the house PA or hire the suitable system in.

But, just to calibrate with your expectations, what have you been using up to now, and what size of audience have you been covering with that? Also, what country are you based in?

[dennisgamalej]

so guys you recommend more to use yamaha dzr12 with some subs than yamaha dzr315 with some subs? Thnx:)

[dennisgamalej]

and when i use 2x yamaha dzr12 and 2x yamah dxs18?

[Sam Spoons]

What is the budget?

[dennisgamalej]

Budget is max. 7000 euros

[Sam Spoons]

2 x Yamaha DZR12 plus 2 x DXS18XLF will cost around €6k. I doubt you'll find anything better for the money (though there are other makers doing similar). It may not be loud enough for 500 people outdoors but that depends on your expectations and the genre. You are unlikely to find anything that will go louder for your budget unless you go used (and, probably, get lucky).

[Drew Stephenson]

Worth mentioning that the Yamaha set up that Sam suggests is going to sound loud AND good. That will work much better than something cheaper that might go as loud but definitely won't sound as good.
Even for punk stuff people still want to hear music not just noise.
Well, maybe...

[BigRedX]

It would help if the OP let us know where in the world he is, because in my recent experience of playing punk gigs here in the UK, the PA has always been supplied along with an engineer by either the venue or the promotor. In the last 10 years of gigging I've had to hire in a PA only a handful of times and that was because we had chosen to play places that don't normally put bands on.

No point in spending money on buying gear if you don't have to.

[Guest]

Those Fame Emperor 15s are wonderfully efficient if those figures are true. They have an 450W RMS amp, so that's an additional 26dB over the base speaker efficiency value. That makes the 1W SPL figure 110dB. So I really don't believe that 136dB figure (Music Store have an awful lot of typos in their specifications sections). More likely to have a comparable loudness to other speakers quoting a 124-126dB max. SPL.

And if you are going for subs, then I'd be looking at 12" mains, not 15". The subs will be doing all the low-end work anyway, so you don't need all the low-end extension of the 15" speakers, and 12" drivers sound better on vocals than 15" drivers.

Are you honestly saying 450w is enough for 500 people?

[Sam Spoons]

No, quite the opposite

[Guest]

I suppose it depends on room size (if not outdoor) really. Don't see how the number of people should come into it unless they are making a lot of noise

[Sam Spoons]

I've seen two guys playing acoustic guitar instrumentals captivating the audience in a 1500 seater auditorium, un-amplified. But for some genre's where very loud and very clean is required a huge rig would be needed to deliver in a similar venue.

[Mike Stranks]

I've seen two guys playing acoustic guitar instrumentals captivating the audience in a 1500 seater auditorium, un-amplified. But for some genre's where very loud and very clean is required a huge rig would be needed to deliver in a similar venue.

... and as I learnt when working with guitarists from various backgrounds... a true classical guitar is surprisingly loud... much louder than an unamplified steel-string.

[Sam Spoons]

These guys were playing Gypsy Jazz to a, predominantly, country rock audience during a brief interlude in the set. The original Macaferri guitar, on which all Selmer style Gypsy Jazz guitars are based, was built as an even louder classical (Mario Macaferri was a classical guitarist who wanted to be able to play with orchestras and designed the guitar with that in mind). The audience were quiet while they played and the theatre was Buxton Opera House so well suited to acoustic performance, the players were John Jorgenson and (my mate) Andy Mackenzie.

[Guest]

I know people can count number of people for business sence. But what kind of venues would hold 500 people?

[Sam Spoons]

Big ones