Hi folks
Sorry if this is a bit OT, but I wanted to pick some brains. One of the things I do as a freelancer is songwriting workshops in schools and youth clubs. The idea is generally to go in with laptop, mics, guitar, keyboard etc, and help the kids to write and track a song, which is then mixed and given to them on CD. I am still a bit new to this, and have generally been hitherto working with other more experienced individuals in running the session. However I have learnt a lot since I started doing it, and my confidence has improved in leaps and bounds.
Recently an opportunity has come up for me to do such a workshop, but this time pretty much on my own. There will be about 15 kids, aged 10-11, with I guess pretty non-exceptional instrumental skills. The workshop will run over 3 days.
I wanted to build on my knowledge of how to run such workshops by seeking others’ experience. Anyone here have any experience of running such workshops? I’m interested in tips on anything from how to brainstorm lyrics and harmonies etc, through to how to maintain the group’s focus/confidence, prevent boredom and so on.
If you have any good advice, or can point me in the direction of any good resources, please pipe up!
Many thanks
Tips on songwriting workshops with kids?
Re: Tips on songwriting workshops with kids?
This chap does kids workshops:
http://www.bullybeat.com/
There was an interview with him in the last issue of The Works, The British Academy Of Songwriter's members mag...
http://www.bullybeat.com/
There was an interview with him in the last issue of The Works, The British Academy Of Songwriter's members mag...
Murray Webster London Songwriters - Collaboration Songshare Retreats Community
Re: Tips on songwriting workshops with kids?
Hi Mud
I've done a number of workshops with kids of a similar age.
I'm assuming your experience with leading young people is not substantial (excuse me if I'm wrong), so I would strongly suggest that you get a helper!
I've always gone by the unwritten rule of one 'supervisor' to every 5 or 6 kids; 15 on your own might get a bit rowdy. Of course, if you know them already (maybe it's a group of kids you've worked with before), they may be easier to control.
Also, do you know if any of the group have learning difficulties? Before I tell you why I ask, perhaps I should state clearly that having kids with learning difficulties in a group is *not* a problem — you just need to know before you get the workshop underway. Here goes:
I did a workshop last year with a group of seven 9-12 yr olds. One member of the group showed textbook signs of Asperger Syndrome (although he was not diagnosed), and one had what I'd call 'medium-level' ADHD. They really didn't get on. I was unaware of this before the workshop began, which was a mistake — I really should have found out. Essentially, half the workshop was taken up thinking of activities that engaged and involved these two lads, and importantly, keeping them apart!
So even with me and two helpers, we were flat out! I was later told that I could have applied for stacks more grant money (for one-to-one supervision) if I'd have known beforehand.
Having non-instrumentalists on the workshop is not a problem whatsoever, in fact it's really refreshing to hear what a non-musical mind comes up with.
It's important to think outside the box here — *anything* can be an instrument, whether it's a radiator, a drinks bottle or a piece of paper! If you can get the kids to realise this, it can get really interesting.
Visual things help: If you're making a graphical score over the course of the three days, for example, get some massive paper, stick it on the wall and sketch it out so you can point to it, etc.
As for maintaining focus, silly, energetic activities after lunch can help to bridge the gap between playtime and serious learning (if you're going to be doing that!), even if they're not really related to the task in hand.
Kids these days are incredibly gadget-savvy. I remember getting a grasp of copy & paste in my school IT lessons — it took three days! Today, you can show kids a piece of software, and within half an hour, they will have found functions that you didn't even know existed!!!
Most importantly, and as you've done workshops before I'm sure you already know, you just have to 'go with the flow'. You might envisage some beautiful-sounding results that never come to fruition, equally, you might be looking to create a really raw jumble of sounds and discover that your group is full of virtuosos!
They're just some things off the top of my head — I hope they're helpful.
Chris
I've done a number of workshops with kids of a similar age.
I'm assuming your experience with leading young people is not substantial (excuse me if I'm wrong), so I would strongly suggest that you get a helper!
I've always gone by the unwritten rule of one 'supervisor' to every 5 or 6 kids; 15 on your own might get a bit rowdy. Of course, if you know them already (maybe it's a group of kids you've worked with before), they may be easier to control.
Also, do you know if any of the group have learning difficulties? Before I tell you why I ask, perhaps I should state clearly that having kids with learning difficulties in a group is *not* a problem — you just need to know before you get the workshop underway. Here goes:
I did a workshop last year with a group of seven 9-12 yr olds. One member of the group showed textbook signs of Asperger Syndrome (although he was not diagnosed), and one had what I'd call 'medium-level' ADHD. They really didn't get on. I was unaware of this before the workshop began, which was a mistake — I really should have found out. Essentially, half the workshop was taken up thinking of activities that engaged and involved these two lads, and importantly, keeping them apart!
So even with me and two helpers, we were flat out! I was later told that I could have applied for stacks more grant money (for one-to-one supervision) if I'd have known beforehand.
Having non-instrumentalists on the workshop is not a problem whatsoever, in fact it's really refreshing to hear what a non-musical mind comes up with.
It's important to think outside the box here — *anything* can be an instrument, whether it's a radiator, a drinks bottle or a piece of paper! If you can get the kids to realise this, it can get really interesting.
Visual things help: If you're making a graphical score over the course of the three days, for example, get some massive paper, stick it on the wall and sketch it out so you can point to it, etc.
As for maintaining focus, silly, energetic activities after lunch can help to bridge the gap between playtime and serious learning (if you're going to be doing that!), even if they're not really related to the task in hand.
Kids these days are incredibly gadget-savvy. I remember getting a grasp of copy & paste in my school IT lessons — it took three days! Today, you can show kids a piece of software, and within half an hour, they will have found functions that you didn't even know existed!!!
Most importantly, and as you've done workshops before I'm sure you already know, you just have to 'go with the flow'. You might envisage some beautiful-sounding results that never come to fruition, equally, you might be looking to create a really raw jumble of sounds and discover that your group is full of virtuosos!
They're just some things off the top of my head — I hope they're helpful.
Chris
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- Chris Mayes-Wright
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Re: Tips on songwriting workshops with kids?
I have done similar stuff as well ...I am worried also about the numbers, you can really only get two or three people around a laptop - unless I was working with specific acts - e.g a band or a couple of people rapping i would consider it a lecture - as soon as you start working on a track there is the danger that everyone else will zone out - and even if I had large groups there was always someone on hand to help with emergencies i.e bad behaviour!
Make sure you involve the kids properly - ask them to bring in an instrument - anything they can play at all. Any few notes can be made into a loop and added to the mix. And ask them to bring in records so you can discuss what they like and hopefully show them how things are done.
Avoid the 'happy clappy songs about rainbows' scenario. Kids like thier own music passionately - even if you dont - and if you can play the parts to an Usher track, or indeed Muse they will be more impressed.
Make sure you involve the kids properly - ask them to bring in an instrument - anything they can play at all. Any few notes can be made into a loop and added to the mix. And ask them to bring in records so you can discuss what they like and hopefully show them how things are done.
Avoid the 'happy clappy songs about rainbows' scenario. Kids like thier own music passionately - even if you dont - and if you can play the parts to an Usher track, or indeed Muse they will be more impressed.
Re: Tips on songwriting workshops with kids?
Hey thanks for the input guys.
Well I did the workshop mentioned in my first post and it went rather well. It was helped by having lower numbers than expected - 8 attended rather than 15, much easier. I had an assistant too, provided by the client - the more I do this work, the more I realise that having another supervisor on hand is essential, as you say for anything above about 5 or 6.
Preparation is also key - I was able to cobble together a decent plan consisting of exercises and ice-breakers to get the kids on board - seemed to work quite well, and I learn more every time I do it.
I suppose the tricky bit is keeping everyone involved at certain points in the process, none more so than when it's tracking time, and I start recording the kids laying down their parts/vocals. I shepherded the group off to another room to sit with my assistant, and called the kids in two at a time to record. The assistant had to just improvise with the group in the meantime really, doing a few guitar lessons, percusion exercises and stuff like that, while we recorded in the next room. He did this admirably, and all went well, but I still feel like it's the 'weak spot' in the whole process - I'm fine with dividing the group up when writing the song, so different teams can go off and work on different aspects of the song or whatever, but eventually it comes down to a one(or two)-at-a-time scenario where kids have to be recorded on their own. Their musical skill, coupled with time constraints, tends to mean that getting them to a level where they can be recorded all together playing as a band, is not realistic.
Similarly, I've been doing some other workshops based around 'music-to-film' - I facillitate the kids watching and interpreting a short film or animation, and then help them create suitable bits of music for the film. This is great, but even more restricting in terms of the one-at-a-time thing, cos it has to be done to the film...
By the way, one thing that works well for me is making sure the client can supply an extra monitor screen or projector, so I can connect my laptop to that - the kids can see what I'm doing...
A cool thing I did too, was connect a wireless computer keyboard to the laptop so I could roam around the room and still trigger sounds etc... I set up a 'live loop layering' project in Ableton Live, so the kids had to record a percussion loop one at time to a click and I would just hit return to record each new loop on the fly... I was just wandering between the kids with the keyboard in one hand and an SM58 in the other...
Share more tips if you got 'em, folks!
Well I did the workshop mentioned in my first post and it went rather well. It was helped by having lower numbers than expected - 8 attended rather than 15, much easier. I had an assistant too, provided by the client - the more I do this work, the more I realise that having another supervisor on hand is essential, as you say for anything above about 5 or 6.
Preparation is also key - I was able to cobble together a decent plan consisting of exercises and ice-breakers to get the kids on board - seemed to work quite well, and I learn more every time I do it.
I suppose the tricky bit is keeping everyone involved at certain points in the process, none more so than when it's tracking time, and I start recording the kids laying down their parts/vocals. I shepherded the group off to another room to sit with my assistant, and called the kids in two at a time to record. The assistant had to just improvise with the group in the meantime really, doing a few guitar lessons, percusion exercises and stuff like that, while we recorded in the next room. He did this admirably, and all went well, but I still feel like it's the 'weak spot' in the whole process - I'm fine with dividing the group up when writing the song, so different teams can go off and work on different aspects of the song or whatever, but eventually it comes down to a one(or two)-at-a-time scenario where kids have to be recorded on their own. Their musical skill, coupled with time constraints, tends to mean that getting them to a level where they can be recorded all together playing as a band, is not realistic.
Similarly, I've been doing some other workshops based around 'music-to-film' - I facillitate the kids watching and interpreting a short film or animation, and then help them create suitable bits of music for the film. This is great, but even more restricting in terms of the one-at-a-time thing, cos it has to be done to the film...
By the way, one thing that works well for me is making sure the client can supply an extra monitor screen or projector, so I can connect my laptop to that - the kids can see what I'm doing...
A cool thing I did too, was connect a wireless computer keyboard to the laptop so I could roam around the room and still trigger sounds etc... I set up a 'live loop layering' project in Ableton Live, so the kids had to record a percussion loop one at time to a click and I would just hit return to record each new loop on the fly... I was just wandering between the kids with the keyboard in one hand and an SM58 in the other...
Share more tips if you got 'em, folks!
Alex