Digital mixer beckons...

[The Red Bladder]

the Oxford was actually a very straightforward desk, with a control surface designed by ex-SSL engineers. I found it a very easy desk to navigate and use.

I was there when it was launched at IBC and if I remember rightly, along with their pointless DASH recorder. The launch was so important, the real Sony people from Japan were there and not just their UK and German front-men. I was with Barry Fox and other EMAP 'glitterati' and we cornered one of these and started asking questions.

"What, for example, does this button do?" I asked.

"Button do what you ah what it do!" I was told.

Barry always had a thing for Sony and their overweening arrogance and laid into them. It was brilliant! He asked them what steps they are making in non-linear editing using computers. He was told that this was a very long way off.

That was in 1998 or thereabouts, when DigiDesign were the only game in town for smaller production houses doing audio and video. Even giant broadcasters like RTL and Sat1/Pro-7 had already given up on tape in all its forms for audio and were soon to go the same way for video. But Sony knew better!

At the time I had done some market research for Sony Broadcast in Cologne and came to the obvious conclusion that the future lay with NLE. That was pretty much the same conclusion as the Cologne people had come to, but the bosses were furious.

Maybe that box was simple and maybe it was designed people who knew what they were doing - but being Sony, they were going to tell us how to work.

The trouble was, engineers looked at it and didn't like it. Conventional desks were a perfect fit for ProTools and all you had to do was push the 2" to the back of the machine room and plonk down a rack full of PT and plug it in! Swapping a desk out is a giant operation.

After the launch, we were all invited to some Sony binge and I was sat next to some Sony marketing manager who never said one word during dinner. After the nosebags were removed he turned to me and said "You ah come Tokio, yes!"

Then he threw up over his plate and passed out.

[Arpangel]

Sony Oxford? The BBC bought a lot of those, I remember seeing one for the first time in the BBC control room of the Wigmore Hall, we used it to rest our home-made mixer on! We could have used it if we had wanted, but it was way too daunting, if it was a conventional desk, say, a Neve or some other brilliant analogue desk we definitly would have used it, and it would have been instantly familiar.
But......big analogue desks are redundant these days, I always end up using a fraction of the things, most of it may as well not be there, IMO it's a terribly inefficient use of hardware, and waste of space. I say this about "small" analogue desks, same thing.
I'm still thinking of getting a small digital desk, I can't really think of a reason not to, I have problems, and it addresses those problems, an analogue desk does not. It will save me tons of real estate, give me more effects than I can shake a stick at, automation, and most importantly "templates" which will save me even more "tons" time and hair tearing, plus it's an interface, and it still looks like a friendly mixer in the flesh, I still have something to look at and refer to if I get confused, which is very often!
It's a very efficient use of hardware, one set of knobs for a global EQ etc not 300 to sit there gathering dust and getting crackly.

[Mike Stranks]

^ ^ ^

Nail... head...

[Arpangel]

^ ^ ^

Nail... head...

Decided on a Behringer X32 Producer. Ordering it today.

[CS70]

Henry Ford was asked what the secret to success in business is and he said, "Find out what the customer wants and then give it to them!"

If only..

[The Elf]

Decided on a Behringer X32 Producer. Ordering it today.

I was warned off the Producer, since it has no scribble strip. The warning was good!

The Compact is an easier desk to live with.

[forumuser840717]

Sony Oxford? The BBC bought a lot of those, I remember seeing one for the first time in the BBC control room of the Wigmore Hall, we used it to rest our home-made mixer on! We could have used it if we had wanted, but it was way too daunting,.....

Having worked there many times, I don't remember there ever being an Oxford in the Wigmore control room. In fact before they knocked the room about a bit and made a bit more space, an Oxford wouldn't have fitted into the room. Nor would the aircon plant needed to keep it happy.

Do you mean the DMX-R100?



There used to be one of those at the Wigmore. It's sometimes referred to as the baby Oxford or poor man's Oxford. Lovely little thing. Sounds good, was solidly built like a proper piece of pro-audio gear - no random rattles or loose/cheap feeling switches or faders, and was really easy to use. Most of the learning curve was in the setup pages but those took all of about 10mins to master; once it was up and running I found it quicker to use than any analogue console with similar capabilities.

Not one of these though:



(There was a smaller version available which lost the three bays to the right of the master section but even that would've been a squeeze at the Wigmore.)

This was another really easy console to learn. Obviously it's more complex than the DMX-R100 so takes longer to get around but for anyone who's used a large format console it shouldn't take more than about 30mins to get a mix going (allow another 30-60mins to get around the setup pages). That said, some people who'd only ever used similar sized analogue consoles did seem to find the freedom that the control surface offered a bit confusing. One engineer I worked with hated it until he worked out that he could store his preferred setup and just recall that and have it work the same way every time. Great sounding bit of kit though. If I had money to burn I'd buy one just to play with and snuggle up to in the winter!

That or a Neve Capricorn.

[Arpangel]

Decided on a Behringer X32 Producer. Ordering it today.

I was warned off the Producer, since it has no scribble strip. The warning was good!

The Compact is an easier desk to live with.

Yes, good point, I was thinking about that, but wasn't sure if it would be a major issue.

[Arpangel]

Sony Oxford? The BBC bought a lot of those, I remember seeing one for the first time in the BBC control room of the Wigmore Hall, we used it to rest our home-made mixer on! We could have used it if we had wanted, but it was way too daunting,.....

Having worked there many times, I don't remember there ever being an Oxford in the Wigmore control room. In fact before they knocked the room about a bit and made a bit more space, an Oxford wouldn't have fitted into the room. Nor would the aircon plant needed to keep it happy.

Do you mean the DMX-R100?



There used to be one of those at the Wigmore. It's sometimes referred to as the baby Oxford or poor man's Oxford.

Not one of these though:



(There was a smaller version available which lost the three bays to the right of the master section but even that would've been a squeeze at the Wigmore.)

Apologies, you're right, it was a DMX-R100.
I like that control room, the acoustic treatment worked really well, things sounded very realistic in there. I can remember one session, a producer was standing outside the door, he asked if there was a cellist "in" the control room!

[Sam Spoons]

I have the Compact, I had the same choice to make (between the Producer, Compact and Qu16 actually) and scribble strips were what swung it. If you have multiple layers they are invaluable.

[Hugh Robjohns]

EDITED TO ADD: Sorry -- catching up and have ended up posting independently almost exactly the same as forumuser840717... great minds and all that...

Sony Oxford? The BBC bought a lot of those...

No, they really didn't... I'm not sure anyone did buy any, actually! A few studios were given one to play with for a while, but I'm not sure if anyone actually parted money for one, and it was, sadly, a commercial failure.

I remember seeing one for the first time in the BBC control room of the Wigmore Hall, we used it to rest our home-made mixer on! We could have used it if we had wanted, but it was way too daunting, if it was a conventional desk, say, a Neve or some other brilliant analogue desk we definitly would have used it, and it would have been instantly familiar.

Are you thinking of the Sony DMX-R100?



That was a really lovely little desk, and surprisingly popular with classic recording types (including the BBC).

But......big analogue desks are redundant these days...

Broadly true... and yes, compact digital desks can offer many more facilities in a much smaller space. And yet I find I enjoy using my Calrec Minimix2 far more than my Yamaha DM1000!

[Arpangel]

EDITED TO ADD: Sorry -- catching up and have ended up posting independently almost exactly the same as forumuser840717... great minds and all that...

Sony Oxford? The BBC bought a lot of those...

No, they really didn't... I'm not sure anyone did buy any, actually! A few studios were given one to play with for a while, but I'm not sure if anyone actually parted money for one, and it was, sadly, a commercial failure.

I remember seeing one for the first time in the BBC control room of the Wigmore Hall, we used it to rest our home-made mixer on! We could have used it if we had wanted, but it was way too daunting, if it was a conventional desk, say, a Neve or some other brilliant analogue desk we definitly would have used it, and it would have been instantly familiar.

Are you thinking of the Sony DMX-R100?



That was a really lovely little desk, and surprisingly popular with classic recording types (including the BBC).

But......big analogue desks are redundant these days...

Broadly true... and yes, compact digital desks can offer many more facilities in a much smaller space. And yet I find I enjoy using my Calrec Minimix2 far more than my Yamaha DM1000!

I was alaways a fan of Audio Developments mixers, I've never owned one, but they look fabulous! I remember drooling over them in Studio Sound magazine.

[Urthlupe]

I was always a fan of Audio Developments mixers, I've never owned one, but they look fabulous! I remember drooling over them in Studio Sound magazine.

Tom (Cryan - Audio Developments) is still in business around the corner.......

If you’re still into the idea drop me PM and I’ll put you in touch

Kindest

Loopy

[Arpangel]

I was always a fan of Audio Developments mixers, I've never owned one, but they look fabulous! I remember drooling over them in Studio Sound magazine.

Tom (Cryan - Audio Developments) is still in business around the corner.......

If you’re still into the idea drop me PM and I’ll put you in touch

Kindest

Loopy

Thanks Hugh, but I'm guessing they'll still be pretty expensive, and given my recent "voyage to the dark side" via digital desks I may not have a use for something like that anymore.

[Hugh Robjohns]

Thanks Hugh...

it was Loopy offering the introductions!

I'm guessing they'll still be pretty expensive...

Oh yes! Properly engineered, bomb-proof analogue mixers designed for decades of reliable use in harsh professional conditions. Think several grand for eight channels! Even a second-hand AD149 would set you back £3k or more and a new one is closer to £10k.

[Urthlupe]

Oooooo, to be mistaken for Robjohns......

....and without having to dress up......



Arpy, you made my day baby..... xxxxxxxx

Loopy

[Hugh Robjohns]

... I remember seeing one for the first time in the BBC control room of the Wigmore Hall, we used it to rest our home-made mixer on!

Just because I am this nerdy... I've checked and it was a Sony DMX-R100 console in the Wigmore Hall, years back, but it is currently a Digico SD9.

[Arpangel]

... I remember seeing one for the first time in the BBC control room of the Wigmore Hall, we used it to rest our home-made mixer on!

Just because I am this nerdy... I've checked and it was a Sony DMX-R100 console in the Wigmore Hall, years back, but it is currently a Digico SD9.

It was about 4 years ago I was in that room, they had the Sony then.
Digico???? Blimey, do the Beeb normally go for this type of desk for live broadcast/recording?
I can remember the gear in that room, we were recording a tenor and string quartet, they had K+H 0300 monitors, Nagra digital recorders, a Lexicon 480, and an old HH power amp for talk back. Upstairs was another studio with a lot more stuff, I think that was run by an in-house engineer.

[OneWorld]

Another vote for interface with no mixer here, as others have mentioned with the software that comes with the likes of RME/UA etc, routing is just as versatile as having a mixer (if not more so) and the space saved is always a welcome bonus. Sam's point about cost of I/O count is a good one though.

Control surfaces are hit and miss for me, the integration has to be really tight or it just doesn't seem worth it. With live work I still like as many faders/controls to hand as is practical, but for the studio I'm generally happy with far less.

I agree. I have a control surface and in fact was an evangelist for them. I slaved over Cubase setting up custom templates, so that each session was predictable - eg fader 1 always the lead vox, fader 2 always, right through the various VSTs, group faders etc it was a lot of faffing about but got it right. Then I updated to Cubase 10 and made sure my Win10 was bang up to date - and that's trashed everything, in fact the control surface has been turned off, it won't work properly, sometimes recalls all the settings, sometimes doesn't, sometimes Cubase 'sees' the controller, next session it doesn't, sometimes it works and then drops off the radar half way through a session, so there's now a £450 dust magnet now

[Arpangel]

Another vote for interface with no mixer here, as others have mentioned with the software that comes with the likes of RME/UA etc, routing is just as versatile as having a mixer (if not more so) and the space saved is always a welcome bonus. Sam's point about cost of I/O count is a good one though.

Control surfaces are hit and miss for me, the integration has to be really tight or it just doesn't seem worth it. With live work I still like as many faders/controls to hand as is practical, but for the studio I'm generally happy with far less.

I agree. I have a control surface and in fact was an evangelist for them. I slaved over Cubase setting up custom templates, so that each session was predictable - eg fader 1 always the lead vox, fader 2 always, right through the various VSTs, group faders etc it was a lot of faffing about but got it right. Then I updated to Cubase 10 and made sure my Win10 was bang up to date - and that's trashed everything, in fact the control surface has been turned off, it won't work properly, sometimes recalls all the settings, sometimes doesn't, sometimes Cubase 'sees' the controller, next session it doesn't, sometimes it works and then drops off the radar half way through a session, so there's now a £450 dust magnet now

That's bad, but that's computers for you, I'm almost giving up on them, but for editing and compiling, I'm not going back to razor blades and tape, that's a step too far.

[Arpangel]

OK, things have become more drastic here, I've gone totally in the box
I didn't have enough inputs on my Motu originally, but I just got rid of a few sound sources, synths etc, job done! Do I miss them? No.
The Buchla has been the inspiration for this drastic move, it's all I need, I've never been more productive, so it's an abvious thing to do, just get rid of stuff that's actually a distraction and not contributing to anything.
I'm OK, I haven't had any side effects, my blood pressure is normal, I'm not shaking!
It does feel a bit weird looking at my table with hardly any stuff on it, but it's actually very liberating.

[Bob Bickerton]

Well if you’re feeling that good about it now, just think how positive it will feel when it’s all second nature!

Bob

[Drew Stephenson]

I'm OK, I haven't had any side effects, my blood pressure is normal, I'm not shaking!
It does feel a bit weird looking at my table with hardly any stuff on it, but it's actually very liberating.

Don't tell everyone! The whole industry will collapse!

[OneWorld]

Another vote for interface with no mixer here, as others have mentioned with the software that comes with the likes of RME/UA etc, routing is just as versatile as having a mixer (if not more so) and the space saved is always a welcome bonus. Sam's point about cost of I/O count is a good one though.

Control surfaces are hit and miss for me, the integration has to be really tight or it just doesn't seem worth it. With live work I still like as many faders/controls to hand as is practical, but for the studio I'm generally happy with far less.

I agree. I have a control surface and in fact was an evangelist for them. I slaved over Cubase setting up custom templates, so that each session was predictable - eg fader 1 always the lead vox, fader 2 always, right through the various VSTs, group faders etc it was a lot of faffing about but got it right. Then I updated to Cubase 10 and made sure my Win10 was bang up to date - and that's trashed everything, in fact the control surface has been turned off, it won't work properly, sometimes recalls all the settings, sometimes doesn't, sometimes Cubase 'sees' the controller, next session it doesn't, sometimes it works and then drops off the radar half way through a session, so there's now a £450 dust magnet now

That's bad, but that's computers for you, I'm almost giving up on them, but for editing and compiling, I'm not going back to razor blades and tape, that's a step too far.

It's working again now, and the issue was this,,,,,

In the April/May Win10 update there is this issue of 10 MIDI devices, but that is a but confusing, the 10 devices restriction only applies to some hardware, Korg and ICON QCON at least.

And what can happen if you have the ICON QCON at slot 10 and you install another MIDI device, the ICON QCON can be displaced and ends up at 11, and it ceases to work.

And you can even delete some devices but the Registry still has it at location 11 (yes one might ask why more than 10 device slots shown if there is a 10 device restriction? It's not a Win10 issue but some manufacturers MIDI drivers)

So I was pointed in the direction of a Korg utility 'Uninstall KORG-USB MIDI Device' and what that does is list and display all MIDI drivers, and sure enough I had loads of them as even though some MIDI hardware had been un-installed when I sold it, the Registry still had them there and thus the 10 device limit breached. So I was able to go down the list until I got down to 10 devices and my ICON QCON moved to slot 10 - problem solved and now it's working fine (touch wood!)

For the past week I'd installing/uninstalling, trying different USB slots, which made things worse as because as soon as something was plugged in it added yet another location to the registry, so I had about 6 ICON QCON showing but all of them >10 and then I came across the Korg utility and that fixed things, and gave me the opportunity to scour the Registry of some redundant entries. I wish there was some way of getting rid of all the other detrius in the Registry. I have yet to come across a utility that truly scavenged the Registry - many claim to but after I have run them I go back and check and a lot of stuff remains

[BillB]

So I was pointed in the direction of a Korg utility 'Uninstall KORG-USB MIDI Device' and what that does is list and display all MIDI drivers, and sure enough I had loads of them as even though some MIDI hardware had been un-installed when I sold it, the Registry still had them there and thus the 10 device limit breached.

That sounds useful - thanks for the tip