x32 for iPad with Behringer X32 Rack - EQ vs. Gain problem

[BustersBBQ]

I am running a live band show using x32 for iPad with Behringer X32 Rack system.

For the life of me, I don't understand why the Gain controls and EQ controls for each mic signal are LINKED. I can't adjust the high/mid/low frequencies of any mic input WITHOUT also increasing or decreasing the GAIN for that channel.

Of course, on a mixing board, this it not a problem, as those elements are SEPARATE controls.

Why oh why are they LINKED in the X32 for iPad app, and is there a way to SEPARATE them???

I have searched here and in many other forums, and have not yet found even a mention of this.

Thanks in advance!

[AlecSp]

While I can't quite picture exactly what's happening (as it's clearly so daft), the X32 doesn't work that way at all. I've also no experience of the iPad app, but that still shouldn't be happening.

If you've an Android device (Mixing Station from the Play store) around or a Windows laptop (using X32-Edit from Behringer's website), does the mixer behave when using either of them?

Check that the X32 is up to the latest firmware version, and try a factory reset, in case there's something odd going on there. You could also try using Mixing Station on the iPad, as it's now available for IOS. Mixing Station is generally seen as the better tablet app. While it may not look as "pretty" as the Behringer app, it's well supported and maintained, and is *hugely* customisable.

[Sam Spoons]

They don't appear to be interconnected on my version of X32 Mix in demo mode. Exactly how are they interacting?

[BustersBBQ]

Thank you, Sam!

When I increase the High, Mid or Low frequencies in the EQ, the GAIN also automatically increases, which of course results in feedback. The opposite happens when I DECREASE the High, Mid, Low frequencies, which of course results in loss of signal/volume loss to that channel.

On a *physical* mixing board, the Gain and High/Mid/Low knobs work COMPLETELY INDEPENDENTLY of each other, yes? That's the ONLY way I've ever experienced those functions on ANY mixer.

So why the TWO versions of X32 for iPad I have running on two separate iPads have those functions LINKED, I cannot surmise. Nor can I figure out how to make it stop. :-/

[BustersBBQ]

Thank you, AlecSP!

One of the iPads I just installed the X32 for iPad app last night -- same result as the one I've been running the system on site with on another iPad we've been using to control that X32 rack for about 2 years now.

I think I'll call the guys at Sweetwater Sound, where we bought the rack. I always get great customer service from them.

[BustersBBQ]

Oh, and maybe I'll try Mixing Station. Thanks for the tip, AlecSP.

[Dave Rowles]

I've never encountered that before on my x32 rack, and I've had it pretty much from when it came out.

Any chance you could do some screenshots or video and post it up so we can see what's going on?

[Mike Stranks]

Just to be absolutely clear...

When you adjust the EQ do you see the gain move (or see it adjusted subsequently) or is it that as you adjust the EQ you hear level increases and resultant feedback?

[Sam Spoons]

Yup, a little video would be useful. Also which version of X32-Mix do you have (my most up to date is 3.0.1 with earlier versions on my older iPads)?

But, when you say

When I increase the High, Mid or Low frequencies in the EQ, the GAIN also automatically increases, which of course results in feedback. The opposite happens when I DECREASE the High, Mid, Low frequencies, which of course results in loss of signal/volume loss to that channel.

Do you mean the gain knob moves and the relevant box shown a higher number in the gain display (mine definitely doesn't do this in demo mode) or that the signal gets louder without the gain knob moving? The latter would be expected behaviour, boosting a frequency band is applying gain to that band alone rather than to the whole signal but it's still increasing the gain (forgive me if I'm stating what is obvious to you but others may well read this thread later and need that explanation).

Will go and experiment later with the Compact.

[Sam Spoons]

Correction, all my iPads are running X32-Mix 3.1.0 and the X32 Compact is running fw 3.0.8.

Adjusting the eq using X32-Mix does not alter the gain setting on the Compact, when viewed on either the desk surface or the iPads

I will check if there are later versions of X32-Mix and the desk firmware shortly and if so decide if I want to upgrade.

edit :- 3.1.0 is the latest version of X32-Mix, The desk fw is up to 3.11 with only incremental changes so I shan't upgrade at the moment.

[BustersBBQ]

Just to be absolutely clear...

When you adjust the EQ do you see the gain move (or see it adjusted subsequently) or is it that as you adjust the EQ you hear level increases and resultant feedback?

The answer is BOTH.

[Sam Spoons]

Definitely need a video of this happening. I can't make my rig do it.

Aso which versions of X32-Mix and the X32 FW are you using.

[BustersBBQ]

Here is a VIDEO I made of this phenomenon happening...

https://youtu.be/5PSzRrKEqWg

Sorry it's sideways, video isn't really my thing...

[hobbyist]

Thank you, Sam!

When I increase the High, Mid or Low frequencies in the EQ, the GAIN also automatically increases, which of course results in feedback. The opposite happens when I DECREASE the High, Mid, Low frequencies, which of course results in loss of signal/volume loss to that channel.

On a *physical* mixing board, the Gain and High/Mid/Low knobs work COMPLETELY INDEPENDENTLY of each other, yes? That's the ONLY way I've ever experienced those functions on ANY mixer.

So why the TWO versions of X32 for iPad I have running on two separate iPads have those functions LINKED, I cannot surmise. Nor can I figure out how to make it stop. :-/

On our AH board the EQ does change the gain at those freqs and could cause feedback depending....

But the faders do not move.

What I think you described is normal and basic physics.
But it should only apply to the one channel not all of them.

OTOH Behringer could be different.

[Music Wolf]

That isn't the mic gain that is moving, it's the gain for the frequency band which you are cutting or boosting. Instead of dragging the eq curve try adjusting the gain (having first selected the frequency) and watch the curve move.

[Hugh Robjohns]

Here is a VIDEO I made of this phenomenon happening...

Thanks for the video, that has really clarified the issue you were having.

As the Wolf says, this is entirely normal and correct behaviour! What you are seeing is the boost/cut gain control for the frequency band you are adjusting in the EQ. It's not the channel input (mic preamp) gain control!

On an analogue desk, if you want an Mid boost or cut, say, you'd select the desired centre frequency with the frequency control, and the amount of boost or cut with the associated gain control.

The Behringer works in exactly the same way... But because it has a graphical user interface you can also drag the frequency/amplitude plug around to create the desired frequency response, and the virtual gain/frequency controls change accordingly.

So, no fault found with the desk or control app. User misunderstanding of the console operation. Nothing to see here...

[AlecSp]

Yes, all working exactly as expected. If you'd gone back and looked at the channel gain, you'd have noticed that it was not being changed as you adjusted EQ.

The view in the Windows X32 edit makes it more clear that you've got separate gains for each frequency in the EQ - see the pic below. Agreed, it's never so helpful the way the Apple/Android EQ window works one frequency at a time.

And it's entirely normal that (especially extreme) boosts in EQ will result in feedback.