Replacement for Bose 802

[NickBellows]

We have been using Bose 802s (series 2) in our PA for a very long time now.
We have the module of course and are driving them with an Inuke 3000 which works fine for us.
However, they are fairly old now and even though they are not huge, they are quite heavy to mount on our stands.
We would really like to replace them with something that performs as well (or better) but is far more compact too. (I don't have a lot of boot space and something easier to handle would be really helpful).
Any suggestions?
Thanks
Nick

[Sam Spoons]

A couple of Yamaha DXR10s would be my suggestion as a good compromise between size/weight/price and performance.

[Mike Stranks]

Bose 802: excellent in their day, but now surpassed by modern gear.

A few answers will help us give informed answers:

- Style of music played/genre?
- What's the line-up and does it all go through the sound system?
- Size of typical venue?
- Budget?

There's lots of cracking kit out there so we'll definitely be able to recommend something - almost certainly from personal experience.

As you know, these days most of us prefer self-powered speakers. Are you happy to go with that?

[Wonks]

DXR10s would be my suggestion as well. There's now a Mk II version, but they are only a small improvement (1dB louder) than the originals, so used or end-of-line Mk 1s are well worth looking at and they will be significantly louder than the Bose rig. Great sounding speakers and nice and compact. One reason I chose them over the 12" versions.

[NickBellows]

No problem going with powered speakers.

We are a Ceilidh band. Amplified acoustic - fiddle, squeezebox, guitar(plus an Electric upright bass. All through the system.

Usual venue - wedding hotel / village hall, but occasionally a large conference centre (our inuke 3k + Bose has worked fine for the largest venue we play at).

DXR10s look good and it looks like I should get at least £250 from selling 802s + controller + Inuke so about £550 to find (can't see any second hand at the moment).

Other suggestions to compare appreciated too particularly anything compact.

Cheers
Nick

[Peter H]

If going for active speakers (I have also changed over completely from passive, and sounds like we have similar bands/venues), in my experience the Yamaha (DXR series, or lighter, cheaper DBR series) or QSC K series, are brilliant, and for me it's mainly a matter of weight against loudness/lower frequency handling (cost as well of course). It's slightly different if the electric bass is also going through the system - that tends to take a lot of speaker!

[DanR]

Another vote for Yamaha DXR10.
As mentioned, it would be useful to know if there’s any backline and monitoring. If the bass player has a combo then 10’s should do fine.

A nudge up in sound quality would be RCF HD10 Mk iv’s or their Art 710.
If funds allow, add an RCF 702 as ii sub for a great sounding, compact and flexible PA.
Use the tops for most gigs, then add sub for larger ones.

[NickBellows]

Interesting for comments on bass.

We have always put him through our system and it seems to have worked fine (nothing to compare it with I suppose).
We have 4 TC Helicons we use for monitoring - absolutely love them.

More than we can afford to up the bass at the moment - not even sure how it works with the system, this will sound very naive, but where would the sub take its signal from?

[Wonks]

I assume you use the PA in 'dual mono' mode i.e. with all channels panned centrally?

Then you'd just take an output feed from one of the active speakers into the active sub. Or you can do it the other way round (if you are using stereo - say for interval music) and take the mixer L+R outputs into the sub and take the L+R output feeds from the sub to the two tops.

The first method saves on a cable, but depends on the tops having their own HPF and the sub its own LPF (which the Yamaha system components do). If not, then the sub will have HPF outputs for the tops, so always use the second method.

[DanR]

where would the sub take its signal from?

From a mixer usually. Does the band have one?
Full range signal into sub input then the High Pass out to the two top speakers. The sub splits the signal using an onboard crossover.

[Wonks]

Full range signal into sub input then the High Pass out to the two top speakers. The sub splits the signal using an onboard crossover.

Not on all systems. A lot, but not all. The Yamaha range have low pass filters in the subs and HPF in the tops, but their chaining output signals are full range.

[NickBellows]

We use a soundcraft spirit E8
It looks like my query about signal is answered.
It looks like the Yamahas are what we need.
Maybe get a sub for the bass if we are flush one day.

[Mike Stranks]

In the light of what you've said Nick I'll also put a vote in for the DXRs. They can give a good account of bass as long as you're not expecting hyped trouser-flapping, chest-thumping stuff.

I used to have some; classy kit.

[Peter H]

Can I hesitantly put a possible spanner in here - in my experience it is a big deal for choices of gear if the bass player does, or does not, go through the main PA. In jazz-type small/medium gigs, it's so much easier if the bass goes alone, and for example you may even be OK with yamaha DBR10s, DXR8, or QSC K8. (I assume the drums are not miked)

[DanR]

Full range signal into sub input then the High Pass out to the two top speakers. The sub splits the signal using an onboard crossover.

Not on all systems. A lot, but not all. The Yamaha range have low pass filters in the subs and HPF in the tops, but their chaining output signals are full range.

Yes, forgot that. QSC K series too have full range out from subs. HPF is in the K tops.

[DanR]

Can I hesitantly put a possible spanner in here - in my experience it is a big deal for choices of gear if the bass player does, or does not, go through the main PA. In jazz-type small/medium gigs, it's so much easier if the bass goes alone, and for example you may even be OK with yamaha DBR10s, DXR8, or QSC K8. (I assume the drums are not miked)

Yes, agree with that. Ideally bass would have a stand alone amp. Keep PA for everything else.
Maybe though ‘everything through the PA’ has always worked for the band and is convenient.
Monitoring looks sufficient.

[Peter H]

Maybe though ‘everything through the PA’ has always worked for the band and is convenient.

DanR

Yes, and good, light bass amps are not cheap!

[AlecSp]

A reality check based on the original post, if 802s at 14kg are too heavy for you, DXR10s are no lighter. In fact, most decent 10" active cabs are around that weight or heavier. My RCF ART 710 Mk1s are only 11kg, but they've gained weight in subsequent versions.

That said, for what you carry in the active cabs, you'll no longer be carrying in a separate amp.

Otherwise, yes, a good pair of active 10" cabs is likely to impress you. Only you can decide whether they're good enough to add bass into. A lot of small scale jazzers will use a bass combo instead of going through the PA. My 10" GenzBenz cab is stupid light (7kg) and has astonishing depth, as well as reasonable level - it can't quite hold up with a full-on rock band. That's the kind of bass cab that would suit a small jazz setup, unless you went with a full-range PA including sub.

[DanR]

A reality check based on the original post, if 802s at 14kg are too heavy for you, DXR10s are no lighter. In fact, most decent 10" active cabs are around that weight or heavier. My RCF ART 710 Mk1s are only 11kg, but they've gained weight in subsequent versions.

Yes.
The EV ELX200-10P is another option. Just a little over 13kg.
I’m impressed with my Alto TS210. Very light and decent sound.
They are cheaper but the new 300 series looks good spec wise.
Get what you pay for though so they won’t have the headroom and sound quality of more expensive cabs.

At the other end of the scale, the new QSC K8.2 would do very nicely I think. Surprising bass from a small cab.

[Mike Stranks]

At the end of the day, the OP will have to decide what he wants - small and portability or heavier with good, solid sound. IME those two are usually, but not always, mutually exclusive.

I like my Also TS210s and they give a good account of themselves, but they're not in the same league as my (former DXRs).

As has been intimated, even some of the 'quality' 8"s can give a good account of themselves and accurately represent bass. For ease of portability I ended-up with some DXR8s. One of the acts I worked with had a section of the concert that had significant bass content. The 8s gave a good account of themselves.

Bottom line OP: only you can decide. Listening is the acid test... Good luck with your exploring and choosing.

[NickBellows]

Hi OP here
really appreciate all the help in this thread. A lot to think about.
I think what I have summarised is that to get good sound I need some weight.
The DRX10 look like they are pretty universally liked and that if nothing else - I will notice a step up in performance from my 802s
Calculations tell me that volumewise the Yamaha's are about 2/3 that of the Bose (LxWxH) so that is useful. I also won't need the separate amp - all saving space.
So, I shall order some DRX10s and give them a go.
We have a gig next Saturday, so should know pretty soon.
One day, we might consider a sub, but the Bose seem to have been fine for us for the past decade as far as providing bass in our mix and I guess the Yamaha will at least match that.
I will hope that the 802s & eq get a reasonable price on Ebay.
I shall report back - watch this space.
Cheers
Nick

[Wonks]

Best of luck, Nick.

[DanR]

Good luck with the DXR10s
Original version which I have is going for a good price now the mkii is available.
Just the one big handle on top but should be easy enough to stand mount as they’re small and chunky.
I’d recommend the original covers as the speaker finish is smooth and prone to scuffs.

[Sam Spoons]

I have Stagg speaker bags for my DXR10s, cheap and cheerful but they do the job fine. The DXRs are easy enough to get up onto stands and, like DanR I've had three of the original version for a few years now and been extremely happy with them. Just be aware the 'D-Contour' eq switch makes a big difference to the sound so don't forget it's there.

[NickBellows]

Sam, are these the Stag bags you mean
Stagg SPB Speaker Bag, 10 Inch
Cheers