Separating / Distinguishing Snare / handclaps...

[The Bunk]

I may or may not have an issue here but just wanted to see if I'm going things about the right way. So basically, simple enough...I have a project on which I have added handclaps towards the end of the song. I'm using Reaper and EZDrummer with snare (and of course kick, hats etc) tracks separated. Handclaps are on two tracks, one mono, one stereo, recorded live through an SM58. The mono track is very slightly panned off-centre.
I've added a little reverb and delay to one of the handclap tracks but no EQ treatment. It sounds OK to me but I just wondered if there are any recognised techniques for doing this so they sit well together in the mix and don't clash excessively?

[Martin Walker]

Zukan (Eddie Bazil) is our in-house expert on matters such as these, especially since over the years he's produced many sound libraries that include both snares and handclaps.

I'm sure he'll pop in shortly with some tip-top advice.

Martin

[Mixedup]

Sounds like you're gong for realistic clap sounds rather than electro... in which case, all I'd say is layer them, and try not to close mic them — get some ambience on the recording (or at least fake it after the fact). They can sound a bit thin on their own, so also try layering with slightly deeper, meatier sounds... recording thigh slaps is the classic choice!

[The Bunk]

Hmm, good couple of pointers there already thank you. They were close-miked...obviously that's easily rectified. As for the thigh-slaps - another possibility but I do also remember leaving my thigh black and blue after doing tambourine hits that way .

[Mixedup]

I do also remember leaving my thigh black and blue.

So find someone else's thigh to slap

[Jack Ruston]

If needs be, delay them, randomly, behind the snare. So the snare is in time, but the claps are sometimes a bit late. It helps to unmask them, and to lengthen the snare, but it can also be a nice feel, natural.

[The Elf]

A healthy dose of distortion might help too.

[Zukan]

Martin, thanks for the heads up buddy.

I do this kind of thing all day long with Hip Hop and some styles of EDM. I tend to use a mono layer (clap, snare or whatever you are layering with) for solidifying the mid/center information and work the layered claps using the sides of M/S. This allows me to blend one layer towards the mid and the other layers towards the sides. You could also send all the layers to one group or aux and use M/S there. I like using auxes for layering as I have control over the send which in effect means I am working in parallel but with only one sound as opposed to duplicating the same file and working on the duplicate and then trying to balance the two. This does limit you in that whatever process you apply to the sound gets duplicated at the aux. But for simple
2 sound layering tasks it is very effective.

Another cool trick is to work the clap effects on the sides. I use MSED on an aux channel with say a reverb stuck in there and drop the mid out and work the sides of the verb. This gives a much more solid and consistent sound and because the verb is only on the sides you achieve a sense of space without having to mush the center with verb. I've been doing this with a mix Eddy and I are working on. We ran the pads in M/S using verbs also in M/S with only the sides activated. As pads can mush a mix quite quickly this separation of the sides technique attenuates the mid but boosts the side giving a sense of space without the mid interfering with similar frequency sounds. Works even better on reverbs.

Also, try frequency conscious side-chaining. I often duck one frequency range so as to create space for a similar frequency range when working with two similar sounds. Works really well.

There are other techniques for working with layers but it would eat up a ton of forum real estate explaining them. But try the above and see if they work for you.

[Martin Walker]

Wow - now that's what I call a reply. Loads to try there in addition to all the other helpful suggestions above

Martin

[The Bunk]

Yep, agreed Martin and thanks to all and especially to Zuke for the replies. Plenty to get my teeth into there! Thanks as ever guys !

[Wonks]

So, you record the claps at the sides of the room and the snare in the middle. Got it.

[Kwackman]

Yep, agreed Martin and thanks to all and especially to Zuke for the replies. Plenty to get my teeth into there! Thanks as ever guys !

I'm sure you already know, but Zukan does do great tutorials/ebooks on this sort of thing.
Click on the links in his signature.

[The Bunk]

So, you record the claps at the sides of the room and the snare in the middle. Got it.

Indeed. Or I just send the whole thing to Zukan and say "sort it out please fella."

[Zukan]

Hahaha..

[Martin Walker]

So, you record the claps at the sides of the room and the snare in the middle. Got it.

Indeed. Or I just send the whole thing to Zukan and say "sort it out please fella."

Not as silly as it might initially sound - I know Eddy (Deegan) has just posted on another thread about some mixes that Zukan is helping him with - personal tuition is another one of Zuke's fortes.

Whenever he's tweaked a mix of mine the results have been credited on the album - he's that good

Martin

[Wonks]

Whenever he's tweaked a mix of mine the results have been credited on the album - he's that good

Walker's Gangsta Rap album is superb.

[Zukan]

Whenever he's tweaked a mix of mine the results have been credited on the album - he's that good

Walker's Gangsta Rap album is superb.

You should see the video...

[Dave B]

I prefer MW's hardcore take on that classic Stevie Wonder track : Been spending most our lives living in a woodland paradise ...

[Wonks]

Whenever he's tweaked a mix of mine the results have been credited on the album - he's that good

Walker's Gangsta Rap album is superb.

You should see the video...

I did. Couldn't sleep for several days afterwards.

[Zukan]

I understand.

[Martin Walker]

Wow - my discography seems to have suddenly grown in leaps and bounds



Martin

[The Bunk]

A healthy dose of distortion might help too.

Tell you what, that ^ really has made a difference! I've also done a little bit more tweaking based on other replies - thanks to all and especially Zukan for that!
It's a Springsteen song so I'm quite tempted, based on the latest input to this thread, to hand the whole thing over to Zukan and see if he can give The Boss the Gangsta-rap tretament. Could be interesting.

[The Elf]

A healthy dose of distortion might help too.

Tell you what, that ^ really has made a difference!

Ay thangyu!

[Mixedup]

A healthy dose of distortion might help too.

Tell you what, that ^ really has made a difference! I've also done a little bit more tweaking based on other replies - thanks to all and especially Zukan for that!
It's a Springsteen song so I'm quite tempted, based on the latest input to this thread, to hand the whole thing over to Zukan and see if he can give The Boss the Gangsta-rap tretament. Could be interesting.

I'd be interested to hear that!

[ManFromGlass]

In a pinch I’ll take a newly recorded mono clap track and pan it hard left, then take the same file placed on another track but pan it hard right. Then I’ll clip off a beat of one of the tracks and slide this new starting beat back so it lines up with the original start of beat one on the other track.

Sonic variation Fun!