Laptop live? Never again.

[BJG145]

Sometimes you just have to admit you were wrong.

I remember a time when the idea of using a laptop for live performance was regarded with misgivings and suspicion; then it seemed to gain general acceptance...and I was dumb enough to fall for it. Why spend a fortune on synths and sound modules when you can do it all for a fraction of the price with VSTs...?

* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *

The DrumKAT is a war-torn veteran of the MIDI drum controller set. It's made of cast iron and reinforced concrete. It weighs a ton, it's completely indestructible, and it combines sophisticated programmability with an appalling interface. See here.

If you have the patience, it lets you do stuff like assigning repeating loops of MIDI notes with a particular velocity and duration to a single pad...and I spent ages cueing up the glockenspiel part for Radiohead's No Surprises, breaking it down into short loops assigned to different pads, to bring along to this jam night...it was going to be awesome.

Then I looked around for something to actually make the sounds and realised that, I didn't really have anything suitable. So I set it up with Cantabile on a Microsoft Surface. Mistake.

Never mind that the latency required hits fractionally ahead of the beat, or that Windows decided that it couldn't wait any longer to start installing updates half an hour before I left...

...testing at home...? Worked great. At the gig...? No way. This was just a jam night so you get about five minutes to set up. I thought there was only about a 50% chance of getting it working anyway, but that was optimistic.

So I need to find an inexpensive MIDI sound module with a variety of decent sounds, because I'm never using Windows again. It's let me down several times too often.

Studio/recordings...?

Live...?

[MOF]

If you do decide to try again disable internet access. I presume this is doable on a Windows PC.
I can’t think of any other reason why it shouldn’t have worked.
If I was doing live work I’d use a Mac Book Pro (it allows you to decide when to update software) with a SSD rather than a traditional hard-drive to be more ruggedised.

[Arpangel]

I'm sorry about this, not good when you're looking forward to something.
Even on my Mac with the internet turned off it crashes sometimes, with a couple of music programs, not often, it's not really become an issue and it's quite rare, but.....you don't want it to be in the back of your mind at a gig.
I'd never gig with a computer, it's just too risky, but you do see it quite an lot, unless you're a top budget act and can afford genius techs and back up systems it's just not worth it.

[Folderol]

I think the problem is that people tend to use under-powered machines, running the wrong OS, with too much crud. You need to be able to strip out everything that is not related to your music programs. You should also disable background services especially network .

I've run music workshops on a laptop for up to 2 hours solid, without even a single Xrun, on one occasion 'emulating' a flustered musician hitting all the wrong buttons - nothing broke

[The Elf]

I've never had a problem, other than forgetting to hit 'record' to capture the performance! I really fail to understand why people have so much trouble and mistrust over this!

It took me a while with Cantabile to find a basic method that gave me the flexibility I needed, combined with simplicity and repeatability. I made a few fundamental mistakes before I arrived at that place - though everything did work fine, albeit not in a way that was sustainable. A few years in and I can make Cantabile do what I need in the way I need it.

For me the clinchers were Symbolic Links (to let me replicate Racks), and creating a 'device hub' that hugely simplifies getting data from anywhere I have it to anywhere I need it - repeatably and simply. A couple of mixer/splitter utility Racks can be useful too.

Even pre-Cantabile in Brainspawn Forte I had a perfectly reliable rig - and I am certainly not running anything like a fancy laptop for any of this stuff - i3s from PC World!

If you've given up, then fine, but if you choose to take another run at it you know where I am.

[BJG145]

The problem is the number of variables. Is it the MIDI controller...? The MIDI/USB interface...? Has the tablet detected it...? Is it the Windows config...the volume...? Is it the VST host...maybe it lost sight of the MIDI input...? Or maybe it's the plugin...? Or maybe someone didn't unmute the inputs to the desk...?

I don't mind troubleshooting this stuff when there's time and space...but if you're pulling it out of a bag in a crowded room and trying to get set up and ready to go while the band's warming up it's hopeless.

[Music Wolf]

I think that, with any system, you need to do a dry run under gig conditions i.e. strip everything down, pack it up, move to another location and reassemble.

Did you bring everything that you needed?
Does everything boot up ok?
Do you need to fire things up in a specific order?

The problem is often that you have everything thing working at home where you always work the same way and not under pressure but you really need to do a stress test (and the operator is a key component that also needs testing)

[MarkPAman]

No help for a PC user (!) but QLab's notes "A Computer Prepares" give a good idea of what to do to prepare a Mac for a live show.

https://qlab.app/docs/v4/general/preparing-your-mac/

If you have a QLab licence, they've written a routine to do (and undo) most of this for you.

[CS70]

Yeah the key is testing.

I symphatize, becasue it can bit you exactly the same way with hardware.. I was at a jam a couple weeks back and had very quickly tried my portable power supply to use with a couple pedals, all good. Coming to stage, turns out the power supply was not working at all. Not fun!

Back home I tried again with more time and in more gig-like conditions and found the culprit..

[Dave B]

Tonight I shall be testing using Mainstage for a thing I have on Thursday. My backup plan is to use my regular rig, but I’d like to try this system out. If all goes well, my rig will be a Hammond and a MacBook Pro. Lol.

But I’ll be testing it quite hard both tonight and at rehearsal tomorrow. If it works it will be great, but I will thrash it first...

[Wonks]

But I’ll be testing it quite hard both tonight and at rehearsal tomorrow. If it works it will be great, but I will thrash it first...

[BJG145]

OK, I hear ya...it was a bit last-minute with very little testing.

[ManFromGlass]

+1 for the Drum Kat.
Still going strong!

Now where did I put my JV-1080 and S-760 sampler . . . . . .

[garrettendi]

I've been sorely tempted to do this with a computer and amp sims for my guitars... I never use a real amp at home and the amp sims are sometimes as good as the real thing...

I'm having second thoughts about that after reading this...

[MOF]

It’s all about preparation and you’ve effectively said you weren’t.

[MOF]

hitting all the wrong buttons

Hitting all the right buttons, but not necessarily in the right order, surely!!!

Apologies to Andre Preview, Eric and Ern.

[Watchmaker]

Windows decided that it couldn't wait any longer to start installing updates half an hour before I left...

The model wherein the operating system is provided "as a service" is incredibly risky for everyone except the rentier. One wonders, how exactly does Microsoft make money? The answer is by treating its customers as its commodity base, which doesn't pan out well for the customer.

[Dave B]

I've been sorely tempted to do this with a computer and amp sims for my guitars... I never use a real amp at home and the amp sims are sometimes as good as the real thing...

Worth noting that Max / SSG does this every once in a while for open mic nights and is perfectly happy with his MBP and Focusrite Forte...

[The Elf]

The problem is the number of variables. Is it the MIDI controller...? The MIDI/USB interface...? Has the tablet detected it...? Is it the Windows config...the volume...? Is it the VST host...maybe it lost sight of the MIDI input...? Or maybe it's the plugin...? Or maybe someone didn't unmute the inputs to the desk...?

I don't mind troubleshooting this stuff when there's time and space...but if you're pulling it out of a bag in a crowded room and trying to get set up and ready to go while the band's warming up it's hopeless.

iI can only tell you my milage does vary greatly!

I switch on, run Cantabile and... play. Simple as that!

[MOF]

The problem is the number of variables. Is it the MIDI controller...? The MIDI/USB interface...? Has the tablet detected it...? Is it the Windows config...the volume...? Is it the VST host...maybe it lost sight of the MIDI input...? Or maybe it's the plugin...? Or maybe someone didn't unmute the inputs to the desk...?

You start fault finding as far back in the chain as possible and work your way logically to the final output i.e. speakers.
The midi controller and DAW host should have a midi input window that flashes with every key/drum hit.
You can buy/make a 5 pin din led checker to see if devices are transmitting midi data.
Then once you’ve assigned your instrument you should see it on the meter of the channel and then the output when you’ve assigned its outputs (this could all be pre-saved as a song arrangement).
Then you make sure someone hasn’t muted the inputs to the desk.

[qUE@3rdEvent]

Most of the name acts will have a setup specifically for the performance (likely provided as a package by a supplier), there's a photo somewhere on the interwebs with Guetta and a tons of Apple Laptops in front of him incase one falls. I've been to gigs where an act's laptops crash mid set and it the usual startup sound over a large PA and a minute or so of dead air.

Trouble is like you say, unless you're a tech. and you've absolutely screwed down your setup to a custom OS and have everything streamlined, you're basically asking a general use operating system with likely unoptimised software to perform the job of hardware. So it's inevitable you get problems. This and you get into complex harmonics or subsonics, onboard DACs just sound pants.

It's the price you pay for cheap portability.

[OneWorld]

The problem is the number of variables. Is it the MIDI controller...? The MIDI/USB interface...? Has the tablet detected it...? Is it the Windows config...the volume...? Is it the VST host...maybe it lost sight of the MIDI input...? Or maybe it's the plugin...? Or maybe someone didn't unmute the inputs to the desk...?

I don't mind troubleshooting this stuff when there's time and space...but if you're pulling it out of a bag in a crowded room and trying to get set up and ready to go while the band's warming up it's hopeless.

That is exactly it, too many variables to be factored in and people saying "Well I've never had a problem" doesn't fix a thing. I can't understand why people don't use a hard disk recorder instead of a computer, surely a decent multi-tracker does the same job?

[MOF]

I can't understand why people don't use a hard disk recorder instead of a computer, surely a decent multi-tracker does the same job?

This doesn’t address the OP’s problem, that of triggering a software instrument from a midi controller.

[CS70]

I can't understand why people don't use a hard disk recorder instead of a computer, surely a decent multi-tracker does the same job?

Having used three setups for recording - to DAW on a pc, to hard disk recorder and to an hard disk connected to the TouchMix, I find that I much rather prefer the first.

The reason is simply visual feedback. A laptop large screen can be seen when performing and you have a reassuring waveform forming in front of you showing that the thing is actually recording.

With the hard disk recorder, there was very little saying we were recording, and the Touchmix screen is so small that I always have to get nearby to ensure it was still going (plus, it had the occasional short dropout.. it's a computer, after all).

Not sure about live performance. I guess one's gotta remember to disable the screen saver..

[OneWorld]

Windows decided that it couldn't wait any longer to start installing updates half an hour before I left...

The model wherein the operating system is provided "as a service" is incredibly risky for everyone except the rentier. One wonders, how exactly does Microsoft make money? The answer is by treating its customers as its commodity base, which doesn't pan out well for the customer.

Yep, the customer is bottom of the shidheap, that being said, more and more, an OS aspires to be all things to all people, from serious business stuff to games and gimmickery and all things in between. I cannot understand why Microsoft release a lean and mean, no auto-update, flotsom and jetsom 'services' running, to the general public (I believe there are editions of Win10 that are such but sold to big companies on a volume licence)