Recommend a monitor controller—rack mount ideally
Re: Recommend a monitor controller—rack mount ideally
Indeed. Wonks is officially a scholar and a gentlerabbit.
			
			
									
						
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Re: Recommend a monitor controller—rack mount ideally
but it's usually easy enough to hook up an external meter of some sort.
I was intrigued by this, Hugh, if you're still following. How does this work in practice? A rackmount meter of somesort? How does it get wired in?
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		"It's all complete nonsense, anyone who knows what they're doing can deliver great results with whatever comes to hand" - H. Robjohns
Re: Recommend a monitor controller—rack mount ideally
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V_6_ek8V1-A
This is interesting. Shows how a cheap Mackie passive controller skews the stereo image by 1dB. About 3 mins 50 in.
			
			
													This is interesting. Shows how a cheap Mackie passive controller skews the stereo image by 1dB. About 3 mins 50 in.
					Last edited by Dr Huge Longjohns on Thu Dec 12, 2019 11:38 am, edited 1 time in total.
									
			
						
						- 				Dr Huge Longjohns				        
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		"It's all complete nonsense, anyone who knows what they're doing can deliver great results with whatever comes to hand" - H. Robjohns
Re: Recommend a monitor controller—rack mount ideally
Dr Huge Longjohns wrote:but it's usually easy enough to hook up an external meter of some sort.
How does this work in practice? A rackmount meter of somesort? How does it get wired in?
Rackmount meter, or freestanding meter... it matters not. The feed depends on the controller. Really good ones -- like my Crookwood -- provide a buffered output specifically for metering post source selector/mode switching but pre volume control. Some provide a record output which can be used. Or you could use a spare artist headphone output... there's usually a way on all but the most basic.
H
- 				Hugh Robjohns				        
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Re: Recommend a monitor controller—rack mount ideally
Dr Huge Longjohns wrote:This is interesting. Shows how a cheap Mackie passive controller skews the stereo image by 1dB. About 3 mins 50 in.
This channel tracking problem afflicts most monitor controllers that use standard rotary potentiometers for the volume control. It doesn't matter whether they are active or passive, cheap or pricy... it's a fundamental problem of the design of a pot. The tracking error is almost always at its worst when the control is in the bottom half of its range. More attenuation generally gives worse tracking accuracy between channels.
That's one reason why it is recommended to set a reference monitoring level with the control around 2 o'clock where the tracking accuracy tends to be pretty good.
More expensive controllers tend to use more expensive (often conductive plastic) pots which tend to have better stereo tracking accuracy, but the only real solution for guaranteed stable imaging at all volume settings is to use switched matched resistors, either wired around a rotary switch, or with relay switching.
H
- 				Hugh Robjohns				        
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(But generally posting my own personal views and not necessarily those of SOS, the company or the magazine!)
In my world, things get less strange when I read the manual...
		(But generally posting my own personal views and not necessarily those of SOS, the company or the magazine!)
In my world, things get less strange when I read the manual...
Re: Recommend a monitor controller—rack mount ideally
Most fascinating. I note in your review of the Audient unit you say "Unusually, rather than the traditional ganged potentiometer, the main speaker monitoring volume knob actually controls a stereo electronic stepped-attenuator chip, specifically chosen to ensure perfect channel matching at all level settings — so there can never be any wayward image shifts. On my bench tests (see below) I found the channel matching was within 0.1dB throughout
the entire range, with completely inaudible 0.25dB steps, and a maximum attenuation of 105dB" I confess I didn't know what you were talking about here, but I assume this issue is precisely what you were referring to?
In your Drawmer CMC2 review you say "The volume control features the same four-gang potentiometer arrangement as the MC2.1, which helps to maintain very close stereo channel-tracking" which again refers to this issue I guess.
Thanks very helpful.
			
			
									
						
						the entire range, with completely inaudible 0.25dB steps, and a maximum attenuation of 105dB" I confess I didn't know what you were talking about here, but I assume this issue is precisely what you were referring to?
In your Drawmer CMC2 review you say "The volume control features the same four-gang potentiometer arrangement as the MC2.1, which helps to maintain very close stereo channel-tracking" which again refers to this issue I guess.
Thanks very helpful.
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		"It's all complete nonsense, anyone who knows what they're doing can deliver great results with whatever comes to hand" - H. Robjohns
Re: Recommend a monitor controller—rack mount ideally
Or you could use a spare artist headphone output... there's usually a way on all but the most basic.
Wouldn't this just read the level from the headphone out at the level its volume control was set to?
- 				Dr Huge Longjohns				        
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"The performance is 99.9% of what people hear"- J. Leckie
"It's all complete nonsense, anyone who knows what they're doing can deliver great results with whatever comes to hand" - H. Robjohns
		"It's all complete nonsense, anyone who knows what they're doing can deliver great results with whatever comes to hand" - H. Robjohns
Re: Recommend a monitor controller—rack mount ideally
Dr Huge Longjohns wrote:I confess I didn't know what you were talking about here, but I assume this issue is precisely what you were referring to?
Yes. Electronic attenuators can offer very good channel matching at all settings, but potentially raise the distortion figures slightly, and can impose some gain-structure issues for the designer. Audient did a very good job with theirs, though. Drawmer took a typically sideways approach to minimise the problem by effectively averaging the channel mismatches across multiple pots.
Both of these solutions are a lot less expensive than 24-step (or more) rotary switches with matched resistor chains, or relay-switched resistor chains.
H
					Last edited by Martin Walker on Thu Dec 12, 2019 10:32 pm, edited 1 time in total.
									
			
						
						- 				Hugh Robjohns				        
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In my world, things get less strange when I read the manual...
		(But generally posting my own personal views and not necessarily those of SOS, the company or the magazine!)
In my world, things get less strange when I read the manual...
Re: Recommend a monitor controller—rack mount ideally
Dr Huge Longjohns wrote:Or you could use a spare artist headphone output... there's usually a way on all but the most basic.
Wouldn't this just read the level from the headphone out at the level its volume control was set to?
Yes...so you need to set the artist H/P volume control appropriately to calibrate the meter as desired.... Which is actually quite a useful facility if working with a VU meter.
H
					Last edited by Hugh Robjohns on Thu Dec 12, 2019 6:56 pm, edited 1 time in total.
									
			
						
						- 				Hugh Robjohns				        
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(But generally posting my own personal views and not necessarily those of SOS, the company or the magazine!)
In my world, things get less strange when I read the manual...
		(But generally posting my own personal views and not necessarily those of SOS, the company or the magazine!)
In my world, things get less strange when I read the manual...
Re: Recommend a monitor controller—rack mount ideally
How would you do that, then? Match it to a meter elsewhere in the chain?
			
			
									
						
						- 				Dr Huge Longjohns				        
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"The performance is 99.9% of what people hear"- J. Leckie
"It's all complete nonsense, anyone who knows what they're doing can deliver great results with whatever comes to hand" - H. Robjohns
		"It's all complete nonsense, anyone who knows what they're doing can deliver great results with whatever comes to hand" - H. Robjohns
Re: Recommend a monitor controller—rack mount ideally
Yes. That's what line-up tones are for! 
			
			
													
					Last edited by Hugh Robjohns on Thu Dec 12, 2019 7:19 pm, edited 1 time in total.
									
			
						
						- 				Hugh Robjohns				        
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Technical Editor, Sound On Sound...
(But generally posting my own personal views and not necessarily those of SOS, the company or the magazine!)
In my world, things get less strange when I read the manual...
		(But generally posting my own personal views and not necessarily those of SOS, the company or the magazine!)
In my world, things get less strange when I read the manual...
Re: Recommend a monitor controller—rack mount ideally
So how would you do that in practice? And what's a good external vu meter?
			
			
									
						
						- 				Dr Huge Longjohns				        
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"The performance is 99.9% of what people hear"- J. Leckie
"It's all complete nonsense, anyone who knows what they're doing can deliver great results with whatever comes to hand" - H. Robjohns
		"It's all complete nonsense, anyone who knows what they're doing can deliver great results with whatever comes to hand" - H. Robjohns