Vox Microphone for ‘Screamo’ Music

[Klaus_UK]

Hello,

I use the term screamo as although maybe not the most accurate word to describe the genre in question, it means you all get what I mean!

Could I ask the forum’s opinion on which microphone you’d select for a male singer of this genre, playing in small/medium sized venues. Due to the sheer noise of the rest of the band, the usual suspects (SM58 etc.) are not cutting it (pun intended).

The vocalist likes to spend most of his time in the crowd, so feedback resistance is a real issue and the wall of sound presented by the band hides what usable sound does come through. Desk will be 9/10 a X32 or M32, so I will have that level of functionality/tonal control to try and get things sounding good.

Currently I’m looking at the e845, e865, or Beta 57A as options.

The overriding factor is choosing a microphone that can sufficiently reject feedback and also the high volume of the surrounding band. I currently have a couple of Beta58A but they didn’t suit the style or provide enough isolation annoyingly

[Drew Stephenson]

Quick question Klaus, how does the singer hold the microphone?
I've lost track of the number of people struggling with feedback rejection when they've been dealing with a singer who cups the mic. Good technique can make more difference than microphone choice.

[Sam Spoons]

If Beta 58 doesn't hack it then I doubt the Beta 57 will either. I haven't used either but the Heilsound and Audix OM7 have a rep for better than average feedback rejection. Just a thought, if the singer cups the mic basket the best hypercardioid* is going to be closer to an omni with all the feedback issues that generates.

The final option, as unpalatable as it might be, is to turn the band down.

* The OM7 claims to be less affected than most.

edit :- Drew got there first.

[The Korff]

I've lost track of the number of people struggling with feedback rejection when they've been dealing with a singer who cups the mic.

There's a handy solution for that...

[Klaus_UK]

I've lost track of the number of people struggling with feedback rejection when they've been dealing with a singer who cups the mic.

There's a handy solution for that...

That’s metal.

[Hugh Robjohns]

Fabulous! Should be a standard accessory!

[Klaus_UK]

Quick question Klaus, how does the singer hold the microphone?
I've lost track of the number of people struggling with feedback rejection when they've been dealing with a singer who cups the mic. Good technique can make more difference than microphone choice.

Job Title: Sound Engineer / Firefighter

Yes, I’m aware of that and do what can be done to manage technique however ultimately the band are in charge so all I can is give myself the best chance through good microphone selection and then the rest is down to them.

[Klaus_UK]

I hadn’t considered the OM7 however that looks to be just the ticket!

[Drew Stephenson]

Quick question Klaus, how does the singer hold the microphone?
I've lost track of the number of people struggling with feedback rejection when they've been dealing with a singer who cups the mic. Good technique can make more difference than microphone choice.

Job Title: Sound Engineer / Firefighter

Yes, I’m aware of that and do what can be done to manage technique however ultimately the band are in charge so all I can is give myself the best chance through good microphone selection and then the rest is down to them.

The best I've managed to get with some folks is to equate it with any of the other band members and how they've had to learn to use their kit (be it pedals, amps, sticks) as well as their instrument. Kind of play to that 'your voice is your instrument, your technique gets the most out of it'. Sometimes it works, sometimes you're p***ing into the wind.

I do like the barbed wire basket protector though - for certain genres it would definitely act as an image enhancer.

[Wonks]

I hadn’t considered the OM7 however that looks to be just the ticket!

But the singer does need a consistent mic technique and keep it close and in the same position. The very tight polar pattern means that if you wander off-mic even a small bit, the vocal level will drop significantly. But you won't get a stage mic with a tighter pickup pattern.

Even so, pointing the mic at the FOH speakers will still cause feedback, so technique is everything.

[James Perrett]

If you've got a screaming vocalist who can't be heard with an SM58 then I'd say the problem isn't the microphone. Yes, an OM7 has a tighter pickup pattern but with a loud vocalist the SM58 should work.

Are you using compression or distortion on the vocals? If not used in the right way these can both reduce the gain before feedback. As already mentioned, the singer also needs a sensible microphone technique.

And lastly - is the PA loud enough to overcome the sound of the band?

[Humble Bee]

For high feedback resistance I use the EV ND96. It sounds really good to IMO.

[Bob Bickerton]

Coming a bit late to this - certainly technique is the most important aspect, as well as having sensible levels.

Having achieved that and if you still need a microphone with better feedback rejection, then the Audix OM7 is the best we've come across. We actually undertook tests on several microphones some years ago and the OM7 was head and shoulders above the rest - BUT - you have to eat it and stay on mic - lips touching the grill!

Bob

[ef37a]

Differential pair Gaffered together?

Been a while since I was in a pub with a band but over many years hearing them I almost never got much of what the singer was doing! Generally bands do not have a Scooby about balance and what is physically possible with amplified microphones.

I have just seen that the OM7 has an even lower sensitivity than a 7b at 0.8mV/Pa. Maybe put a 10dB XLR slug in the mic cable and scream even louder?

Dave.

[Tim Gillett]

If you've got a screaming vocalist who can't be heard with an SM58 then I'd say the problem isn't the microphone. Yes, an OM7 has a tighter pickup pattern but with a loud vocalist the SM58 should work.

Are you using compression or distortion on the vocals? If not used in the right way these can both reduce the gain before feedback. As already mentioned, the singer also needs a sensible microphone technique.

And lastly - is the PA loud enough to overcome the sound of the band?

This ^

I'm also guessing this has nothing to do with the microphone.

And if the band is that screamingly loud on its own, there's probably no headroom left anyway (in the audience's ears) for an even louder vocal.

But as so often with self diagnosed problems, posting a recording from the audience is probably better than" a thousand words". Give us what you're hearing... Your diagnosis that the problem is with the mic may be completely wrong.

[AlecSp]

I have just seen that the OM7 has an even lower sensitivity than a 7b at 0.8mV/Pa. Maybe put a 10dB XLR slug in the mic cable and scream even louder?

I think you have a different idea about gain structure from the rest of us!

[ef37a]

I have just seen that the OM7 has an even lower sensitivity than a 7b at 0.8mV/Pa. Maybe put a 10dB XLR slug in the mic cable and scream even louder?

I think you have a different idea about gain structure from the rest of us!

Don't think so? I go way back with sound reinforcement and the 'critical distance'.
Sucking the mic and screaming is just a limiting condition of that. The 10dB pad stops the pre amp overloading but then I doubt the guy CAN scream any louder anyway!

Of course, if the vocal PA cannot put out enough SPL to overcome the band he is hissing in the wind. not coming anywhere near me are you OP? !!)

Dave.

[Klaus_UK]

If you've got a screaming vocalist who can't be heard with an SM58 then I'd say the problem isn't the microphone. Yes, an OM7 has a tighter pickup pattern but with a loud vocalist the SM58 should work.

Are you using compression or distortion on the vocals? If not used in the right way these can both reduce the gain before feedback. As already mentioned, the singer also needs a sensible microphone technique.

And lastly - is the PA loud enough to overcome the sound of the band?

This ^

I'm also guessing this has nothing to do with the microphone.

And if the band is that screamingly loud on its own, there's probably no headroom left anyway (in the audience's ears) for an even louder vocal.

But as so often with self diagnosed problems, posting a recording from the audience is probably better than" a thousand words". Give us what you're hearing... Your diagnosis that the problem is with the mic may be completely wrong.

I was not the engineer this night:
https://www.instagram.com/p/B81Rn1HnrHS ... yisfac64rz

As you’ll hear, the engineer has used all the headroom up making things far louder than they needed to be on the instrument front, leaving little for the vocals. However, even when in good hands (my hands) having a vocalist that likes the wrong side of the stage barrier and to use a microphone in that manner will still present a challenge.

The thing about small venues is that usually the PA and monitor situation only compounds whatever issue you may already have, so in asking for the best microphone for this solution I am just trying to give myself the best chance I can have in overcoming the unavoidable issues.

I have been engineering a long time now so am fully conversant with graphicing and the various other ways you can make things sound the best they can be when in a subpar room with subpar equipment, and do everything I can. But having the right microphone rather than the wrong one may help that extra % to get it as good as it can be.

So while I know everyone is well meaning with their advice on feedback management here, it’s not something I really need advice on. It’s instead just a case of picking the right tool for the job to give myself the best chance from the source.

I’ll do everything I can to make it sound good and I’m never one for making things loud for the sake of loud (unlike most bands and engineers in this genre), and part of that is selecting the right tool for the job.

And for Male rock vocalists in venues with challenging PA and such a scenario, the Audix OM7 does seem to be that right tool.

[CS70]

Yes, I’m aware of that and do what can be done to manage technique however ultimately the band are in charge so all I can is give myself the best chance through good microphone selection and then the rest is down to them.

I feel for you

[Sam Spoons]

Me too (if a bloke is allowed to say that...).....

[Tim Gillett]

Thanks for the clip. It looks like most of the very high volume - in a small venue - is coming from the onstage amps and drums. No need to mic up those cabs! In that situation, as anyone on PA would be, it seems you are powerless. Rule # one, get the onstage volume down, but how would that sort of advice be received?

[Sam Spoons]

Just watched the vid, at least he doesn't cup the mic......

Only listened on the Macbook speakers so far but I'd agree that the stage volume could come down a little. OTOH the balance seems not too far off the mark with the vocal fairly well down in the mix which is how I would mix it.