Big bass sound without muddyness

[talktalk]

I wanna get big bass sound but not muddy and it seems im getting lost with the 2..any suggestions
Thanks

[Jack Ruston]

One surefire way: Rent an Ampeg SVT and cab...mic it with something good and get your instant brilliant bass sound that's good on big speakers, good on small speakers, sits with the track but sounds present etc etc.

You will most likely want a fair bit of compression and some eq too but the right amp will give you that 'revelation'.

In fact I've just done a load of bass re-amps with an old SVT (silverface one with a 4x10 cab). They're not overly loud like the new ones. I used an re20...1176 taking off about 5-7dbs...SSL eq...filter off ultra lows, add 80-100, dip anything nasty in the 300 to 700 area, add bite at 2k and then 7k or so. Time aligned with the original DI...mixed to taste, limit some more, and then eq the pair together according the mix and there it is.

This is a bomb proof approach.

J

[JamJam]

Parallel processing can be really useful for bass. If your using a Daw copy your bass track or if your using a desk send it to an Aux. Once you've got this copy you can do violent unpleasant things to it, much more than can on the original tack. Then mix between the original and the parallel.

Cool processes for parallels include distortion, heavy compression or limiting , a sub bass style effect or extreme Eq.

This approach allows you to retain the original tone and dynamics but mangle the copy 'til it fills your need.

James

[Steve Hill]

Jack's right. The only thing I would add is that I always track bass via a healthy amount of Chiswick Reach valve compression on both the Di and the miked signals (I always take both).

And if I solo either or both tracks they probably sound a bit toppy (think Chris Squire)... but you need some of that to cut through in a typical mix. The bottom is still there... I'm not cutting it (other than maybe scooping some mud out of the lo-mids), I'm boosting the highs.

[Jack Ruston]

Yes...good tip from Steve...The highs in the bass are really crucial to it's attack. You might find that boosting 10db's of 3k allows you to 'hear' the bass. It may make the bottom end sound bigger because it provides 'reference' to the low end stuff and defines it more. You might need to automate the bass quite a bit to make this even.

J

[talktalk]

cheers guys for the help will take note and see what i can do

[Peter Conz Connelly]

I always struggle with bass sitting in a mix, but I just keep at it and at it until I'm happy. My basses are mostly always programmed anyhow, but I do record the odd bassist now and again

P

[IvanSC]

Don`t forget the player also contributes a little to the sound.

You`ll all laugh at my pitiful signal chain - bass to H&K Tubeman 1 to desk.
If compression is necessary I do it at mixdown.
Works for me but there again I have played wuite a bit in studios over the years.
and I WOULD like a Manley VoxBox if anyone is giving them away....

Ivan (one of the odd bass players)

[Mixedup]

Hi Jack / Steve,
Do you always use this approach or do you ever use different mic setups, maybe multi-miking? Would you ever use a mic with a specific presence peak to bring out the bite rather than boost those frequencies with EQ?
Thanks
M.

[Jack Ruston]

Well personally I dont tend to multi-mic bass amps because I want them to sound as 'focused' as humanly possible. Sure I'm going to pick a mic that best represents the sort of sound I want, and I'll adjust the amp to reflect that too. I like re20's in this application because they do handle lots of low end at high spl and give a nice clear attack too. I suspect that most mics that work well on kick will give you that sort of thing...A D112 is probably great. There's always room for a bit of eq

J

[Doublehelix]

I like the Sennheiser MD421 on bass cabs, and as mentioned, mixed and time-aligned with the DI signal. I don't have a real 1176, so I use the UAD-1 (soon to be UAD-2!!!) card version. I never personally use any sub-bass enhancers, but I know a lot of folks that get great results with them for some genres.

I like to work the EQ on the bass guitar so that it compliments rather than fights the bass drum. Areas that I boost on one, I tend to cut on the other.

[archdake mkII]

To make the bass guitar consistent without too much compression I usually cut 100Hz with a Q of one octave and use a bell to bring up some of the 50Hz stuff [exact figures depending on key]. I may also boost some on the 200Hz. THis is because many basses put out more energy on the second octave and with this treatment you get a nice even tone that requires less compression. I then boost the high mids/treble of extra distinction and cut some low mids.

Has anyone else done this?

[Persuazion]

To make the bass guitar consistent without too much compression I usually cut 100Hz with a Q of one octave and use a bell to bring up some of the 50Hz stuff [exact figures depending on key]. I may also boost some on the 200Hz. THis is because many basses put out more energy on the second octave and with this treatment you get a nice even tone that requires less compression. I then boost the high mids/treble of extra distinction and cut some low mids.

Has anyone else done this?

Indeed I have!

Also a cool trick I sometimes reach for is a bit of multiband compression on the low end and then cut it afterwards. Keeps things nice and even. Give it a try!

[Henry-S]

I think for me when mixing Bass, the bite areas that J mentioned are really crucial to make the Bass cut through. I find that a little distortion/Overdrive can really help a Bass so here is a little thing I do.

If you have the options for a Bass Amp/DI then you can do it with these two tracks or if you only have access to a DI then just copy the part twice.

On Bass 1 filter out the extreme high end and keep the lows, nail anything below like 40hrz. As J/Steve said you wanna boost around 80-120hrz, general area, but I try to keep the rest of the eq flat.

Then on Bass 2 I will filter out the low end and I will usually add some form over Overdrive/Distortion, either from SVX plugs, but anything to dirty up the high end. I then will boost around 2k & 6-8k.

I will then blend Bass 1&2 so that you get a really nice thick Bass but the 2nd part really helps cut through the mix. I will then group the parts so I can really glue them together. I then usually cut 50hrz and below, boost 80-120hrz, scoop out some mids and then boost 1-2k mostly & 6-8k slighty. I then add some compression and sometimes a little Vintage Warmer if the sound is too edgy. Charles Dye uses the technique in his Mix It Like A Record DVD so hey it must be good but seriously try it.

[BigAl]

I get creat results with my Stingray going via a POD.
The Stingray is set up quite bassy and I use the POD's compression, as well as a nice sound with a tad of overdrive.
The bass sits lovely in the mix with a rich deep, defined sound, without being muddy and affecting the whole bottom end of the track.

[Statick]

on a side, i always low pass the DI signal around 5khz. it's what the speakers in a cab are doing naturally anyway. that way any effects/distortion/etc the bassist might use don't suddenly sound like fizz.