Modular prices.

[Arpangel]

I’ve been out of Modular for a couple of years now, just getting bak in, blimey, I’m noticing a distinct price rise since then.
Doepfer used to be a good staple, but not now, bread and butter modules that were around £60 are now nearer £90, and Make Noise have had a major price hike too.
I’m not even considering new modules anymore now, it’s got to be secondhand.
I’m only after a handful, but when I added up the new cost of what I need it’s horrendous, and they aren’t anything special either.

[Drew Stephenson]

I've noticed a significant price increase on a whole host of stuff, I think we're beginning to see the impact of the shut down on chinese factories at the beginning of the year.
Hopefully it will be a short-lived blip.
At least until we hit brexit at the end of the year.

[resistorman]

Yeah, most of my purchases are second hand. The good thing is that it seems most modular addicts, including me tend to swap modules out on a regular basis. On the other hand, Behringer is coming on strong. You could put something like a Crave in a rack and have most of your basic needs covered and add in some cool esoteric stuff as money allows.

[Arpangel]

Yeah, most of my purchases are second hand. The good thing is that it seems most modular addicts, including me tend to swap modules out on a regular basis. On the other hand, Behringer is coming on strong. You could put something like a Crave in a rack and have most of your basic needs covered and add in some cool esoteric stuff as money allows.

Thanks for the tip, secondhand is also the way to go.

[resistorman]

Actually, I was wrong, the Crave is desktop only. However, for $100 more the neutron is and has more useful stuff, though no sequencer.

[Eddy Deegan]

I've spent half the evening searching for the operational details of a few modules I have here and which I am not familiar with. I'm relatively new to modular in practice, if quite experienced in the theory of synthesis.

I've got a 6U Arturia Rackbrute, now fully populated and a 104Hp Moog case, half populated. Neither are screwed in yet, I'm still working out the arrangement that works best. I'm not that impressed with the Moog case tbh, as its relatively shallow depth at the front is a something of a compromise and rules out housing a lot of Doepfer modules especially.

I'm considering getting a second Rackbrute, into which I would insert my Model D and Mother 32 synths as wide modules, and install the Pro-1 into the Moog case, then fill the remaining slots with utility modules.

Decisions decisions... but I'm getting there, slowly

[Arpangel]

I've spent half the evening searching for the operational details of a few modules I have here and which I am not familiar with. I'm relatively new to modular in practice, if quite experienced in the theory of synthesis.

I've got a 6U Arturia Rackbrute, now fully populated and a 104Hp Moog case, half populated. Neither are screwed in yet, I'm still working out the arrangement that works best. I'm not that impressed with the Moog case tbh, as its relatively shallow depth at the front is a something of a compromise and rules out housing a lot of Doepfer modules especially.

I'm considering getting a second Rackbrute, into which I would insert my Model D and Mother 32 synths as wide modules, and install the Pro-1 into the Moog case, then fill the remaining slots with utility modules.

Decisions decisions... but I'm getting there, slowly

I have a 3U Rackbrute, and that’s that. I’ve been down this particular Rabbit hole and back again, and don’t intend to revisit. What I did learn is that in reality there is nothing to learn!
You can get all sorts of deranged and obsessive people giving you advice like...

"you must have VCA's, you’ll die a horrible death if you haven’t got enough attenuators, you mustn’t have a Clouds otherwise you’ll end up creating loads of pointless reverb soaked drones, and above all, you "must" own a Maths, if you don’t you’re doomed to failure"

Just a selection of what I’ve been told, at various times.
All rubbish, I’ve got a rack full of random modules and delays, and it’s great, works for me, my advice is just do what you think works for you too, follow your instinct, I wish I had done so when I first started with modular.

[Eddy Deegan]

I have a 3U Rackbrute, and that’s that. I’ve been down this particular Rabbit hole and back again, and don’t intend to revisit. What I did learn is that in reality there is nothing to learn!
You can get all sorts of deranged and obsessive people giving you advice like...

"you must have VCA's, you’ll die a horrible death if you haven’t got enough attenuators, you mustn’t have a Clouds otherwise you’ll end up creating loads of pointless reverb soaked drones, and above all, you "must" own a Maths, if you don’t you’re doomed to failure"

Just a selection of what I’ve been told, at various times.
All rubbish, I’ve got a rack full of random modules and delays, and it’s great, works for me, my advice is just do what you think works for you too, follow your instinct, I wish I had done so when I first started with modular.

That makes a lot of sense. I'm sure I'll add more modules later but currently I have plenty to be getting on with (I got most of them in one batch from a friend who gave up modular and basically gave me a box of them).

I'm going to worry less about understanding all the implications of the signal flow up front. They look fine to me so I'll just plumb them in as is and get on with the "playing around" part... I think I've prevaricated for too long already!

[Aled Hughes]

I'm not that impressed with the Moog case tbh, as its relatively shallow depth at the front is a something of a compromise...

Yes. I had to take a Dremel to mine in order to fit an Expert Sleepers ES-3.
(Another case wasn’t really an option as its part of a 3-tier Moog with a Mother 32 and a DFAM)

This modular business is indeed quite expensive. I’ve just got a handful if modules to complement the M32 and DFAM, so I’ve got it under control, but when you look at building complete voices from modules it gets silly. When you consider the cost of separate VCO, VCF, VCA. step-sequencer and LFO modules, for instance, then something like the Mother 32 looks like great value if your head’s in Eurorack-space, even if you don’t add other modules. But when you look at the Mother 32 just as a single voice desktop synth, it seems a tad overpriced if anything.

It’s a weird Schrödinger’s cat type paradox where something is simultaneously great value and overpriced.

[zenguitar]

I'm considering getting a second Rackbrute, into which I would insert my Model D and Mother 32 synths as wide modules, and install the Pro-1 into the Moog case, then fill the remaining slots with utility modules.

Decisions decisions... but I'm getting there, slowly

I have been thinking about racking things like the Berry Model D and Pro-1 when I get them, but it does seem rather wasteful of expensive Rack space. That's why I was interested in your review of the AMS stands. Their Micro Tower M likes like a nice home that type of module beside a Rack Brute.

https://www.obelisquedesign.co.uk/ams-s ... wer-range/

Andy

[BillB]

That's why I was interested in your review of the AMS stands.

What did I miss?

[Eddy Deegan]

I have been thinking about racking things like the Berry Model D and Pro-1 when I get them, but it does seem rather wasteful of expensive Rack space. That's why I was interested in your review of the AMS stands. Their Micro Tower M likes like a nice home that type of module beside a Rack Brute.

https://www.obelisquedesign.co.uk/ams-s ... wer-range/

Yes that does look very nice! A couple of small things to consider are that you still need a separate power supply (and mains socket) for each device and the difference in lengths between the Mother 32, Model D and Pro-1 are quite significant. Well, the first two are pretty close but the Pro-1 is a lot longer.

I think I'll probably end up Euroracking them ... I do have some mounting rails and a spare power supply or two so I expect it'll be a 9U affair that's the length of the Pro-1 (or thereabouts).

I can't say that figuring out the optimum arrangement is a bad problem to have though

[Eddy Deegan]

That's why I was interested in your review of the AMS stands.

What did I miss?

https://www.soundonsound.com/forum/view ... 27&t=72148

[zenguitar]

Good point about power requirements. Although not necessarily appropriate for those modules, when I do get around to putting everything together I'm considering adding one or two of these to my order when I get the Studiospares cable tester...

https://www.studiospares.com/Cables-Lea ... 574430.htm

Could make mains cabling a lot neater.

Andy

[Random Guitarist]

Those stands look very nice. But the cheapskate in me is thinking I could buy the aluminium section and fittings from a cheap chinese website and make a custom rack. That section is ubiquitous and cheap, and available in beefier sizes if needed.

[Eddy Deegan]

Those stands look very nice. But the cheapskate in me is thinking I could buy the aluminium section and fittings from a cheap chinese website and make a custom rack. That section is ubiquitous and cheap, and available in beefier sizes if needed.

I suspect you could, but to be honest for the amount you'd save and the time it would take I doubt it's worth the hassle for most people. You'd need to be confident in your supplier as well - there are some very dodgy products out there that look the part but fall short on quality.

[Durr GaGa]

I have been waiting (and hoping!) for the release of the MOOG Subharmonicon and it is finally here and reviewed this month in SOS by Gordon Reid. However, I am shocked by the difference in price between this module and the Mother 32 and DFAM in the UK.

In the USA, the Subharmonicon is $50.00 more than either of the other modules BUT in the UK, at £739.00, it is somewhere in the region of £160.00 more expensive than either of the other two modules!!

Ignoring the value of the Pound v Dollar for now, does anyone have any idea why there is such a huge disparity?

[Eddy Deegan]

I have been waiting (and hoping!) for the release of the MOOG Subharmonicon and it is finally here and reviewed this month in SOS by Gordon Reid. However, I am shocked by the difference in price between this module and the Mother 32 and DFAM in the UK.

In the USA, the Subharmonicon is $50.00 more than either of the other modules BUT in the UK, at £739.00, it is somewhere in the region of £160.00 more expensive than either of the other two modules!!

Ignoring the value of the Pound v Dollar for now, does anyone have any idea why there is such a huge disparity?

I don't have a definitive answer but there are certainly variables to consider. Moog operate from the US so their domestic market doesn't have the overheads associated with international shipping (possibly you could add "in a pandemic" to that).

Then there's the 20% VAT on top in the UK as well, whereas in the US there is a lower level sales tax which varies by state and in some cases even city.

[Arpangel]

That's why I was interested in your review of the AMS stands.

What did I miss?

https://www.soundonsound.com/forum/view ... 27&t=72148

Good grief, been looking for something like this for ages.

[BillB]

That's why I was interested in your review of the AMS stands.

What did I miss?

https://www.soundonsound.com/forum/view ... 27&t=72148

Very nice, Eddy, well done. Good to see the KK front and centre

Browsing the Obelisqe website throws up a host of possibilities (and obviously more in design and production). For example this piggyback for an X keyboard stand.



Note the rack attachment on the front... could be a good place to have a hands-on 1u effects unit.

Interesting stuff

[Durr GaGa]

I don't have a definitive answer but there are certainly variables to consider. Moog operate from the US so their domestic market doesn't have the overheads associated with international shipping (possibly you could add "in a pandemic" to that).

Then there's the 20% VAT on top in the UK as well, whereas in the US there is a lower level sales tax which varies by state and in some cases even city.

Thank you Eddy,

You are, of course quite right about the different markets but my 'concern' is more to do with the disparity in prices between Moog products already affected by the issues that you have suggested. For example:-

US

(Prices here are more consistent so I have used just one retailer)

Sweetwater :- Mother 32 $649.00 DFAM $649.00 SubH $699.00

Extra cost of SubH in US = $50.00

UK

(as UK prices vary so much unlike the US, I have used three retailers at random)

Andertons:- Mother 32 £599.00 DFAM £570.00 SubH £739.00
GAK: Mother 32 £578.00 DFAM £599.00 SubH £739.00
Rubadub: Mother 32 £595.00 DFAM £609.00 SubH £739.00

Averaging the price of the Mother 32 and DFAM in UK =£581.00

BUT the extra cost of the SubH in the UK = £159.00 !!!

[Ben Asaro]

[ when you look at building complete voices from modules it gets silly.

If you go paraphonic, you can build a 4-voice modular for a (relatively) decent price. But if you are looking to go full polyphonic with two EGs on and a filter on every voice, yeah, it can get crazy expensive. I have far more VCOs than I have filters.

When you consider the cost of separate VCO, VCF, VCA. step-sequencer and LFO modules, for instance, then something like the Mother 32 looks like great value if your head’s in Eurorack-space, even if you don’t add other modules.

The Mother-32's LFO is useful in the context of musical modulation, but it's definitely not as good as a dedicated LFO module. For example, I have a Modbox, which as 4 LFO outputs. Add in two inexpensive Doepfer amplifiers, and you have TON of modulation options for not a lot of money.

It’s a weird Schrödinger’s cat type paradox where something is simultaneously great value and overpriced.

Until you hear the Mother-32! It has quite a seductive sound, even thought I still feel that straight modular can yield more versatile results ...

I guess the question is: can you build a single voice Eurorack version of the Mother-32 for the same amount of money, even second hand? The answer is a resounding NO, even if you go the Behringer route.

[Aled Hughes]

Until you hear the Mother-32! It has quite a seductive sound, even thought I still feel that straight modular can yield more versatile results ...

I guess the question is: can you build a single voice Eurorack version of the Mother-32 for the same amount of money, even second hand? The answer is a resounding NO, even if you go the Behringer route.

Quite - I do own a Mother 32, and like it very much. And your final paragraph is my point really- in Eurorack world, yes it’s very good value, and it would be very difficult to build something similar from modules for close to the same price.

But when you view it out of the Eurorack world, it can seem a tad overpriced for a single-voice desktop monosynth when compared the competition.

[Eddy Deegan]

Until you hear the Mother-32! It has quite a seductive sound, even thought I still feel that straight modular can yield more versatile results ...

I guess the question is: can you build a single voice Eurorack version of the Mother-32 for the same amount of money, even second hand? The answer is a resounding NO, even if you go the Behringer route.

Quite - I do own a Mother 32, and like it very much. And your final paragraph is my point really- in Eurorack world, yes it’s very good value, and it would be very difficult to build something similar from modules for close to the same price.

But when you view it out of the Eurorack world, it can seem a tad overpriced for a single-voice desktop monosynth when compared the competition.

Is it though? Are you paying for a single voice desktop monosynth, or are you paying for a single voice desktop monosynth that sounds like a Mother-32?

If the former, there are options. Less so if the latter. Nobody is forcing anyone to go either way; it's a fair market offering. As I mentioned in the Subharmonicon thread, that device is a little on the high side for me to get as a 'luxury' item, but now that I've got the modular rebuilt and working again I can see myself coming back to it at a future point and buying one. Whether I do or not I don't know yet but if I start using the modular in earnest in ways that I think and hope I will then at that point it will become worth the investment.

It's all about context.

[Aled Hughes]

Until you hear the Mother-32! It has quite a seductive sound, even thought I still feel that straight modular can yield more versatile results ...

I guess the question is: can you build a single voice Eurorack version of the Mother-32 for the same amount of money, even second hand? The answer is a resounding NO, even if you go the Behringer route.

Quite - I do own a Mother 32, and like it very much. And your final paragraph is my point really- in Eurorack world, yes it’s very good value, and it would be very difficult to build something similar from modules for close to the same price.

But when you view it out of the Eurorack world, it can seem a tad overpriced for a single-voice desktop monosynth when compared the competition.

Is it though? Are you paying for a single voice desktop monosynth, or are you paying for a single voice desktop monosynth that sounds like a Mother-32?

If the former, there are options. Less so if the latter. Nobody is forcing anyone to go either way; it's a fair market offering. As I mentioned in the Subharmonicon thread, that device is a little on the high side for me to get as a 'luxury' item, but now that I've got the modular rebuilt and working again I can see myself coming back to it at a future point and buying one. Whether I do or not I don't know yet but if I start using the modular in earnest in ways that I think and hope I will then at that point it will become worth the investment.

It's all about context.

I do agree with you, I think.
I'm not saying it's hugely expensive as a stand-alone synth - I did buy one after all. Maybe the Behringer stuff is so cheap it makes everything else seem expensive.

But my point is, like you said, that it's all about context. In the Eurorack world, the Mother 32 looks positively cheap! Outside of Eurorack world, it certainly isn't cheap (though perhaps not overpriced either). It's just that the Eurorack/modular world is expensive, though it is, of course, a different journey. And I am dabbling...