Expensive Vocal Mic

[Aptorian]

I'm potentially looking to spend some serious money on a handheld vocal mic and would like some advice.

Atm. I'm leaning toward the DPA 2028 with the Neumann KMS series also in consideration. I'm also not against the higher end of Senny/Shure/Audix.

I currently own: Sennheiser e845, Shure SM58 + Beta 58, Audix OM7 and sE V7.

This is to fill a gap for me for a good handheld microphone that will also work in a recording situation when the vocalist prefers a handheld. I've also often had issues with some female vocalists sounding "harsh" with the mics I currently have so I would like something without the traditional presence boost but with nice airy highs.

[Tim Gillett]

Have you considered the Shure KSM8?

https://www.soundonsound.com/reviews/sh ... 8-dualdyne

[Glenn D]

I love my Milab LSR 3000

http://www.milabmic.com/showproduct.asp?id=1131

A little sensitive to handling noise but it sounds terrific with my voice, so worth the wee bit of extra care in use.

Cheers, Glenn

[Arpangel]

Beyer M 88 ?

[The Red Bladder]

I've also often had issues with some female vocalists sounding "harsh" with the mics I currently have so I would like something without the traditional presence boost but with nice airy highs.

That would be precisely and exactly the KMS 105. It and the SM58 are the two classic vocal mics for hand-held work.

Harshness can also be caused by the mic pre.

[Drew Stephenson]

Not sure on your definition of expensive, but it might be worth looking at a Shure Beta 87a as well.

[resistorman]

+1 KSM 8

[Aptorian]

I've also often had issues with some female vocalists sounding "harsh" with the mics I currently have so I would like something without the traditional presence boost but with nice airy highs.

That would be precisely and exactly the KMS 105. It and the SM58 are the two classic vocal mics for hand-held work.

Harshness can also be caused by the mic pre.

Are you saying that I would have the same issue with the KMS or that it would solve my problems?

In terms of what I'm willing to spend I could probably justify about £500 for the right mic.

I had completely forgotten about the KSM 8 so I will look into that again.

This is mostly for other singers so handling noise is a big no.

Thanks for the advice everyone.

[Hugh Robjohns]

He's suggesting the Neumann KMS105 might solve your problem because it has airy highs without an excessive presence boost. It's a very nice hand-held capacitor vocal mic, widely used and respected. The KSM8 is another impressive option.

[shufflebeat]

If you're already a fan of the Audix range you might also consider the vx series.

I have the vx5 which doesn't come out often (or at all at the minute of course) but when the environment allows it works great on female vox.

https://www.soundonsound.com/reviews/audix-vx5-vx10

[Aptorian]

He's suggesting the Neumann KMS105 might solve your problem because it has airy highs without an excessive presence boost. It's a very nice hand-held capacitor vocal mic, widely used and respected. The KSM8 is another impressive option.

That's what I thought, thanks. I just wanted to clarify because this is a lot for me to spend on a mic atm. especially considering current circumstances. I would like something really nice though.

[rggillespie]

I’ve tried a kms105 but for me it was a little bright and brought out sibilance in my voice. I was able to send it back and found the Shure ksm8 much more my thing. I’d say it was warmer sounding and forgiving of my less than prefect mic technique. Plus I’ve used it for recording acoustics and electric guitars with success. Not to knock the 105 though, one persons light and airy sounding is another’s harsh and bright.

[The Red Bladder]

Sorry I was less than fulsome in my what I wrote - a busy day! Yes, the 105 is probably what you are looking for - or should that be hearing for?

If you are worried about harshness, the 105 gives you the airy top end without a presence boost and it is pretty good at avoiding popping and handling noises - as is the SM58, which, if you have a really good mic pre and EQ can be made to sound every bit as good as the 105. Like all things, it's much easier to have the 105 there in the first place!

Nine times out of ten, if there is NO harshness in the voice, but harshness in the recording, something somewhere is wrong. It could be a cheap mic, or dust on the membrane, or a bad (cheap or faulty) mic pre or a lousy EQ or even clocking problems on the ADDA (rare nowadays but VERY common with the first generation of ProTools converters).

When I record vocals, I very often put up two mics, one behind the other. At the front, it's an SM58 and then behind that, a large condenser, usually an M149. You would be surprised how often the 58 gets used either partially for certain phrases, or mixed-in for a bit of blood-n-guts!

I was talking to a guy who recorded (name of very famous jazz singer) and asked him how he got that breathy edge to her voice. "Did you EQ that in or use something like a KMS105? It just sounds so silky-smooth, how did you do it?"

"I didn't!" he said. "I just stuck a bog-standard U87 in front of her and she let rip. That's what she sounds like. Other than reverb, we didn't touch her voice at all!"

So there you go! What happens in front of the microphone is a thousand times more important than any equipment issues!

Put it another way, put an iPhone in front of Tom Hanks and it will look like a movie. Put an Arri Alexa LF in front of our local am-dram group and they still suck!

[Aptorian]

Yeah I understand it's often not the equipment at fault but most of my work is in live sound with different acts every show so unfortunately the talent isn't something I have any control over. It's just certain voices I have issues with and sometimes swapping the mic helps with that. That's not the main reason for buying just something I thought I'd mention, all of my mics work well for cutting through on a loud stage, I was just looking for something more natural sounding as another option.

The idea was to get one really nice microphone for the occasions that warrant one (and where the singer can be trusted not to drop it) but that could also be used in recording situations where the singer prefers a handheld.

[Tim Gillett]

Sure, we can't control how various people use the mic, though we can politely offer a performer advice on how best to use the mic, but we can control proximity effect (bass tip up). The KSM8 is one of the few current stage mics that does control it. It's one of its great but not always understood features.

[MOF]

Beyer M160 ribbon vocal mic’?

[James Perrett]

One other thought - have you tried the Audix OM5? I know you have the OM7 but I've found that the OM5 gives a very smooth sound with a slight boost at the very high end.

[Aptorian]

Sure, we can't control how various people use the mic, though we can politely offer a performer advice on how best to use the mic, but we can control proximity effect (bass tip up). The KSM8 is one of the few current stage mics that does control it. It's one of its great but not always understood features.

I often barely get a soundcheck, let alone time to advise on mic technique. Proximity effect isn't really an issue for most of my work because the last thing I want is more LF muddying up the sound so I HP it, which also often helps reduce feedback. To put how little control I have in an example; I have singers that I will only trust with an SM58, an SM58 which I have swapped the nice grill for a dented rusty old one because I know they'll drop the damn thing.

The main reason for wanting an expensive handheld was for live shows with a very exposed vocal - where performers often know how to work the proximity effect to their advantage, or as an option for recording.

I'm aware of the advantages of the KSM8 and I haven't ruled it out, I just feel that atm. a condenser would be a better addition to the microphones I already own.

[Aptorian]

One other thought - have you tried the Audix OM5? I know you have the OM7 but I've found that the OM5 gives a very smooth sound with a slight boost at the very high end.

That's interesting, I'll consider that in the future. I'm a big fan of the OM7, it's probably my preference out of the mics I own for sound but it depends a lot on the singer knowing how to use it so I'm picky about who I give it to. Best mic I've ever had for a singing drummer though.

I've honestly never really thought about the rest of the OM series, I'll have to look at them again.

[Dan LB]

My favourites are:

DPA 4018
Neumann KMS104/105
Shure KSM9
Sennheiser e965

I’ve not used the DPA 2028.
Also I’m not sold on the KSM8 yet - I need to spend a bit more time with it.

[Tim Gillett]

The main reason for wanting an expensive handheld was for live shows with a very exposed vocal - where performers often know how to work the proximity effect to their advantage, or as an option for recording.

When I sing live before an audience, or recording the last thing I normally want in the mic is proximity effect. It's a nuisance. If I occasionally work the mic it's to control my dynamics, not to change the bottom end at the same time which is unnatural.

Proximity effect is unfortunately the price usually paid for directionality in a mic. But since the 1950's some great designs have partially controlled it. The KSM8 is just the latest and maybe the best example in this respect.

[innerchord]

The main reason for wanting an expensive handheld was for live shows with a very exposed vocal - where performers often know how to work the proximity effect to their advantage, or as an option for recording.

If I occasionally work the mic it's to control my dynamics, not to change the bottom end at the same time which is unnatural.

I agree with Aptorian. Good, seasoned live performers know the proximity effect of their chosen mic and are aware of it at the very least, and most use it frequently for effect. They understand that proximity changes tone as well as loudness. However, I have seen quite a few experienced vocalists who have never bothered to learn; they can be hard to deal with.

[Tim Gillett]

The main reason for wanting an expensive handheld was for live shows with a very exposed vocal - where performers often know how to work the proximity effect to their advantage, or as an option for recording.

If I occasionally work the mic it's to control my dynamics, not to change the bottom end at the same time which is unnatural.

I agree with Aptorian. Good, seasoned live performers know the proximity effect of their chosen mic and are aware of it at the very least, and most use it frequently for effect...

I guess it depends on what the performer is doing but for straight singing in a band situation where you're trying to approximate the sound of popular songs and recordings, in my experience there's not much scope for that. Especially the sort of thing I've done where we're trying to live balance three l harmony voices. It's all about blending the voices, and balancing against the backing instruments, and that's hard enough on its own, let alone throwing in the complications of proximity effect on three different mics.

I've heard solo comedians use proximity effect for when they do certain voices or effects. Cosby used to go close miced for his "voice of God". Lots of bass and venue reverb, combined (on the live recording) with heavy limiting. But that was solo. There was nothing else to balance against.

[Drew Stephenson]

I deliberately make the most of proximity effect live. Like most untrained singers i loose a lot of power at the bottom of my register so will balance the levels out a bit by relying on the mic to provide some extra grunt.

[shufflebeat]

One other thought - have you tried the Audix OM5? I know you have the OM7 but I've found that the OM5 gives a very smooth sound with a slight boost at the very high end.

That's interesting, I'll consider that in the future. I'm a big fan of the OM7, it's probably my preference out of the mics I own for sound but it depends a lot on the singer knowing how to use it so I'm picky about who I give it to. Best mic I've ever had for a singing drummer though.

I've honestly never really thought about the rest of the OM series, I'll have to look at them again.

The OM5 is great on flute where it helps bring out the reediness of the top end without taking up the whole picture where ideally you want vocals to be. It's quite subtle but effective.

It sounds to me like what you're describing is a bit Sennheiser-ry though, robust, soft sounding and detailed but easy to manage in a hostile environment.