Home Piano Recording

[Hudson1984]

Hi all, my last post was deleted by accident so i'm starting again (thank's for the apology mod team haha I thought it had been deleted on purpose)

anyway, I play piano, mostly on a digital and mostly in my mancave/garage.

ABRSM (exam board) now offer a performance only grade for piano which I'm keen to take on instead of the normal route - mainly because it means I don't have to sing!!

this means I have to record a video of me playing, this must not be edited and must be less than a 2gb file.

My concerns here is my laptop only has a basic webcam
my phone isn't ideal either
the speakers on the digital piano aren't great so won't give the best feel of dynamics etc.

What i'd like some advice on would be how to a) bump the sound from piano b) record this with video

I've had a look and it looks (to my basic mind) that a sound interface would do part of the job, something like a focusrite solo?

But i've no idea what would go where, can I then add monitors to the interface, plug the headphone out from piano (it's a Roland FP-30 with no line out, only headphone jacks) into the interface, then interface into laptop and add monitors to the interface?

I'm lost.

The video just needs to be 720p, nothing major there.

So in summary - I need to record a 720p video with half decent sound.

Only things I have is a Roland FP-30 piano and a decent laptop.

anyone able to put me out of my misery and put a shopping list together?

[The Red Bladder]

All you need is one decent small bridge camera and a cable (almost certainly a 1/4" jack to 1/8" mini-jack cable). You do not need any kind of magic interface, you do not need to jump through any hoops and you do not even need a microphone.

Plug the jack into the piano and the mini-jack into the camera. Set the camera to about an 80th-second shutter speed (to avoid pulsing from any strip lights or LEDs you might be using) and the frame rate to 25fps (frames per second) and the focus to autofocus. Stick the camera on a stand, point it at your good self and check the sound levels and adjust the volume on the piano accordingly.

Edit in some idiot-proof software like Hit-Film (it's free!) or if you want to learn a professional package DaVinci-Resolve (it too is free!) and render your version of Rachmaninoff's variations on 'Chop-Sticks' or whatever.

The Panasonic FZ1000 can be picked up new for about £400 or used for £300 and can even provide cinema-quality images in the right hands! Other models and brands are available!

[Hudson1984]

yay finally someone looking to save me money haha

just been chatting to a store and they've put me about £1,000 worth of shopping together if I get the monitors too

so ok, what you propose will record everything as needed.

how then do I upgrade the onboard sound? the piano has two speaker slots, could one go into the camera and another into a monitor/pair of monitors? just normal playing is a bit hampered at the moment due to poor on board speakers.

[The Elf]

For a simple 'quick and dirty' method...

Looks like the FP-30 has a USB output. With that you could record your MIDI to a DAW as you play. This MIDI you could then route to a virtual piano and record the output as audio and merge it with your video file.

Using Reaper as your DAW (free to start) and a simple, free virtual piano, you should be able to get something usable.

Here are a few free piano VSTs to get started: https://cymatics.fm/blogs/production/25-best-piano-vst-plugins#shootdown

Zero cost!

[Hudson1984]

For a simple 'quick and dirty' method...

Looks like the FP-30 has a USB output. With that you could record your MIDI to a DAW as you play. This MIDI you could then route to a virtual piano and record the output as audio and merge it with your video file.

Using Reaper as your DAW (free to start) and a simple, free virtual piano, you should be able to get something usable.

Here are a few free piano VSTs to get started: https://cymatics.fm/blogs/production/25-best-piano-vst-plugins#shootdown

Zero cost!

only issue there is the video has to be "unedited" so splicing it together like this could look like a cheat and get DQ'd

[CS70]

For a simple 'quick and dirty' method...

Looks like the FP-30 has a USB output. With that you could record your MIDI to a DAW as you play. This MIDI you could then route to a virtual piano and record the output as audio and merge it with your video file.

Using Reaper as your DAW (free to start) and a simple, free virtual piano, you should be able to get something usable.

Here are a few free piano VSTs to get started: https://cymatics.fm/blogs/production/25-best-piano-vst-plugins#shootdown

Zero cost!

only issue there is the video has to be "unedited" so splicing it together like this could look like a cheat and get DQ'd

It is normal practice to use two different systems to record video and audio. The virtual piano you use is immaterial, as it's basically anything you have available - it doesn't have to be the sound engine of that specific keyboard you have. The playing is in the MIDI.

"Editing" in this context would mean artificially adjusting the performance to make it sound better than it is - changing phrases, notes fixing errors etc. In other words, cheating.

If you just record video with your phone while you record midi with your keyboard, send it to a piano to make an audio file and then pair up the result with the original video, it's not editing in the "cheating" sense.

All that said, these guys want only to see how you play. I don't think they expect anything particularly polished - they might even get suspicious if you send something particularly polished.

If I were you, I would just ask the course's administration desk about whether or not the shortcomings you mention are relevant and if you do need to make an effort to make things sound better because of better equipment (as opposite to you playing).

[The Red Bladder]

"how then do I upgrade the onboard sound?"

It could hardly be easier (and shame on the music shop that tells you that you need £1,000 of superfluous audio rubbish!)

All the budget video cameras I have, have got 1/8th inch jack inputs and the movie cameras have XLR inputs - the Roland FP30 has a mini-jack output. it is for headphones, so you will need to be careful not to overload the inputs on the camera.

No home should be without at least one budget-priced DSLR or at least a bridge camera like the FZ1000 - the only thing to watch out for is that it has a separate audio input. Plug it in, press record on the camera and start playing!

In today's world, all the mad complications like time-code and syncing audio to video are dead. All good video software (i.e. not Adobe Premiere or Avid Media Composer) can auto-sync just using the audio as a guide, so you could do a sophisticated multi-cam shoot using 16 GoPros without any need for any link, other than each getting a halfway clean audio-feed.

[Hudson1984]

For a simple 'quick and dirty' method...

Looks like the FP-30 has a USB output. With that you could record your MIDI to a DAW as you play. This MIDI you could then route to a virtual piano and record the output as audio and merge it with your video file.

Using Reaper as your DAW (free to start) and a simple, free virtual piano, you should be able to get something usable.

Here are a few free piano VSTs to get started: https://cymatics.fm/blogs/production/25-best-piano-vst-plugins#shootdown

Zero cost!

only issue there is the video has to be "unedited" so splicing it together like this could look like a cheat and get DQ'd

It is normal practice to use two different systems to record video and audio. The virtual piano you use is immaterial, as it's basically anything you have available.

"Editing" in this context would mean artificially adjusting the performance to make it sound better than it is - changing phrases, notes fixing errors etc.

If you just record video with your phone while you record midi with your keyboard, send it to a piano to make an audio file and then pair up the result with the original video, it's not editing in the "cheating" sense.

All that said, these guys want only to see how you play. I don't think they expect anything particularly polished - they might even get suspicious if you send something particularly polished.

If I were you, I would just ask the course's administration desk about whether or not the shortcomings you mention are relevant and if you do need to make an effort to make things sound better because of better equipment (as opposite to you playing).

yeah it's more me than anything, I just want a half decent setup to kinda make me feel a little more confident is all, rather than think ARGH that sounds awful.

"how then do I upgrade the onboard sound?"

It could hardly be easier (and shame on the music shop that tells you that you need £1,000 of superfluous audio rubbish!)

All the budget video cameras I have, have got 1/8th inch jack inputs and the movie cameras have XLR inputs - the Roland FP30 has a mini-jack output. it is for headphones, so you will need to be careful not to overload the inputs on the camera.

No home should be without at least one budget-priced DSLR or at least a bridge camera like the FZ1000 - the only thing to watch out for is that it has a separate audio input. Plug it in, press record on the camera and start playing!

In today's world, all the mad complications like time-code and syncing audio to video are dead. All good video software (i.e. not Adobe Premiere or Avid Media Composer) can auto-sync just using the audio as a guide, so you could do a sophisticated multi-cam shoot using 16 GoPros without any need for any link, other than each getting a halfway clean audio-feed.

Their list was:
Focusrite Scarlett 2i2 Studio Pack - £200 odd
Focal Alpha 50 Monitor - £190 each so £380 if I went for a pair.

then add the camera stuff, easily £1,000 to be done.

I like the bridge camera idea, But would still like the piano to sound better to me sitting there.

I assume I don't need a mic as the camera is merely recording the file direct from the piano rather than through a mic? dificulty I will have there is I do have to introduce the piece and say my name etc. So I do need to be heard - if only at the start.

again, liking the bridge camera setup plan and I'm really eager to keep it simple, doesn't have to be cheap but would like it basic and easy to use and at the same time upgrade the live sound from the piano (if that's a seperate issue then fine.

[Hugh Robjohns]

Keep it simple.

As RB suggests, you just need a digital video camcorder with an external audio input, and a conversion cable to go from the piano's left-right quarter-inch outputs to a stereo 3.5mm mini-jack input on the camera.

But read the user-manual for the chosen video recorder before purchase -- you need to check that it will let you set the record level manually and turn off any automatic gain control function. It would probably be nice to be able to turn of any auto-focus too, although that is less critical.

Digital video recorders cost anything from £100 to £1000... so just pick something that suits your budget and does what you need.

[Hudson1984]

Just on from the "I need to speak" bit.

Would I be better served with a digital camera such as that suggested, then add something like a Rodevideomicro? I mean for £55 that might be better to use as I can speak as needed and still record the piano.

Then ask you nice people to recommend some form of speaker to upgrade the on board ones i.e pair/single monitor or amp or something.

[CS70]

But would still like the piano to sound better to me sitting there.

Short of using headphones then, yeah, the only way to improve things is to get better speakers.

There's two things at play here - one, your current onboard speakers are bad, and you solve that with better speakers. The other is making the recording, and better speakers could also solve the speaking conundrum.

They're different concerns because your brain gets used to your room so better speakers will in general give you a subjectively better sound when you play. A recording, on the other side, "prints" the room and you simply can't get a great one in a bad room, no matter the quality of the kit.

But likely you don't need a great recording. A properly positioned smartphone (on a little phone tripod) set up to record video and audio would allow you to record a realistic piano live take (with some few tricks) and say your name etc (just speak loud enough ). At least if the phone is not older than say 5 years.

Again, nothing pro-sounding (as a recording) but, as I wrote before, I doubt that's the necessary at all.

I don't know how "crap" the speakers you have are, but if the keyboard has a stereo output, a pair of decent small active speakers will do the trick - no interface, no computer needed. I like the iLoud Micro Monitors but there's plenty.

[Hudson1984]

they're not totally crap, just a little underpowered is all and I want to be able to show clearly I now how to play loud bits loud and quiet bits quiet, so i'm not too fussed about having it sound professional I want it to be clear that I am able to play the dynamics how I should.

only reason i'm aiming for speakers over headphones is during a lesson, I want my teacher to hear me (she comes to my house) so it just works better for me.

I think you're all right in the way you're taking me. Recording at the level i'm aiming for is basic, and that's fine. I mean who knows in 5-10 years I might decide to put stuff on youtube but i've no real aspirations of that at this stage.

So, what speaker(s) would you lot recommend? i'll take a look at the iloud ones for sure.

quickly back onto the recording part - my phone isn't great really, that's where my initial thoughts came from, I could try the rode mic into it, as it was the sound that was the issue there rather than the video.

What would be the benefit of using a DSLR over my phone? (Iphone 6S+)

[CS70]

So, what speaker(s) would you lot recommend? i'll take a look at the iloud ones for sure.

You're spoiled for choices these days. I've personally stuck to the Neumanns KH120A plus a single Auratone powered by an integrated hifi amplifier for the last 8 years, and it still sounds good enough to me, so I'm not much up to speed. The iLoud are in my stepson's room and boy I like them. There's another thread going just now about small speaker for studio that can give you ideas (I think they mention the Presonus Eris).

These are mostly studio monitors however, which the better they are, the less they flatter the sound. To hear pleasant things, you might also look at some good hi-fi speakers powered by an external amp - second hand, you find lots of bargains usually.

I'm sure people more up to speed on current offerings will help soon!

[CS70]

What would be the benefit of using a DSLR over my phone? (Iphone 6S+)

Haha, that's the question that is literally killing the camera industry!!

For your purposed, I'd dare say little.

The main difference is that your phone has fixed focal length, so you can't change the way it sees things as much as you can with a DSLR with interchangeable lenses. Plus DSLRs have many more format options - allowing you to post-process the image or film to a much larger degree without ruining it.

A 6S+ is perfectly able to record a decent take to use for your course presentation and - given a good room - absolutely for youtube as well.

[The Red Bladder]

It sounds as if a cheap and cheerful mini-mixer is going to be your long-lasting friend. £100 tops! Plug-in a mic into one of the inputs (at that price it will just have two!) and plug the piano into the line inputs and adjust the gain to match the inputs of the camera.

Under no circumstances should you even begin to contemplate thinking about spending your hard-earned money on separate video recorders (they start at about £1,000).

I do this for a living and spent all day yesterday recording a technical rehearsal for a TV music programme (first decent gig since lockdown!) and there we had magic cameras and magic recorders with 5.1 ins and outs, etc. I began in 1967 at Granada in the days of 405 B&W, so I've seen pretty much all TV roll tech issues roll before my eyes - today is brilliantly simple. Make use of the technology and as Hugh says, keep it simple! And keep it cheap!

So you need a 4K bridge camera (oodles of them out there!) with separate audio in. A microphone (SM58 is never a mistake!) a camera tripod and some cables to join all that rubbish up together. Camera £300, mixer £50, mic £100, cables £10.

If you get a half-ways decent bridge camera, it will be your friend for years to come, hense my suggestion of the FZ1000 as it has a good 25-400 Leica lens and with a 128GB card will record three hours of 4K film-quality video albeit in half-hour bursts and you will need second battery for three hours!

Desk - https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Soundcraft-S ... i&LH_BIN=1

Camera - https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Panasonic-LU ... Sw3yJfI-DX

Mic - https://www.thomann.de/gb/shure_sm58_set.htm

[Sam Spoons]

iPhone 6S is perfectly capable of recording decent video, audio less so but mainly because the correct place to position the mic is rarely the same place as the best spot for the camera.

I assume you need to speak your name then play straight away while visible on camera with no edits? That makes things slightly tricky as you may find that dubbing the direct recording of the piano onto the video construes 'editing' in the eyes of the examination board, as CS70 says, you'd need to ask them. If I was the examiner I think I would want to hear you playing the piano in the room and would be immediately suspicious if the ambience disappeared immediately after the candidate spoke their name, recording the performance as midi then dubbing it to the video makes it very easy to tidy up the performance and any tidying up would be undetectable.

So if it was me recording a piece for examination purposes I'd record using my iPhone 6S, built in mic and all. Save the 'fancy' stuff for when you want to post on YT or wherever. WRT better speakers, that's another, separate, matter and a couple of (or even a single) decent small active PA speaker(s) would make playing in your room a more satisfying experience. Price for such ranges from a couple of hundred pounds (GB) to as much as you want to spend.

[The Elf]

For a simple 'quick and dirty' method...

Looks like the FP-30 has a USB output. With that you could record your MIDI to a DAW as you play. This MIDI you could then route to a virtual piano and record the output as audio and merge it with your video file.

Using Reaper as your DAW (free to start) and a simple, free virtual piano, you should be able to get something usable.

Here are a few free piano VSTs to get started: https://cymatics.fm/blogs/production/25-best-piano-vst-plugins#shootdown

Zero cost!

only issue there is the video has to be "unedited" so splicing it together like this could look like a cheat and get DQ'd

Your digital piano is only essentially MIDI playing samples, in exactly the same way as the method I'm suggesting - absolutely no difference!

The only 'editing' you need to undertake is making sure the audio lines up with the video. There's certainly no 'splicing' going on.

[Sam Spoons]

I'm not sure it's a matter of Hudson1984 knowing that he isn't cheating but the examiners knowing that he can't be cheating. Correcting bum notes and adjusting note timings in a DAW midi editor would be audibly undetectable unless the examiners could see the players hands sufficiently well in the video to detect such things. As I said I'd be suspicious if I was the examiner and the speech faded into a direct recording of the piano. Maybe I'm just being cynical but the people to tell the OP are the examination board themselves.

[Hudson1984]

I'm not sure it's a matter of Hudson1984 knowing that he isn't cheating but the examiners knowing that he can't be cheating. Correcting bum notes and adjusting note timings in a DAW midi editor would be audibly undetectable unless the examiners could see the players hands sufficiently well in the video to detect such things. As I said I'd be suspicious if I was the examiner and the speech faded into a direct recording of the piano. Maybe I'm just being cynical but the people to tell the OP are the examination board themselves.

Totally agree, I’d be suspicious myself so rather not risk it nor do i really want the hassle so I think I’ll stick with my phone, perhaps upgrade the mic, perhaps move to dslr so I can start on remote or something like that

I’ll get the monitors sorted then record on the phone and see how it sounds and go from there I guess

[Sam Spoons]

The quality of the performance will be evident even if the recording quality is poor, just have a listen to some of those old blues recordings, even on scratchy 78's they sound amazing because those guys could really perform.

[Hudson1984]

Very true, but that’s based on listening for pleasure rather than casting a critical ear to it, if you were listening to those scratchy recordings with a mind of assessing if each note was correct it would be harder than if it were a clear recording. The performance itself isn’t the total mark so whilst I agree nice playing is nice playing, I still need to present a clear submission.

[The Elf]

I'm not sure it's a matter of Hudson1984 knowing that he isn't cheating but the examiners knowing that he can't be cheating..

But all I'm suggesting is adding clean audio to the video file - not editing anything at all. Even if the audio sounded like it was coming from a camera mic that's no guarantee it hasn't been edited.

If proof of not being edited is important then why try to create cleaner audio? Just record on the camera mic and have done with it.

[Hudson1984]

I'm not sure it's a matter of Hudson1984 knowing that he isn't cheating but the examiners knowing that he can't be cheating..

But all I'm suggesting is adding clean audio to the video file - not editing anything at all. Even if the audio sounded like it was coming from a camera mic that's no guarantee it hasn't been edited.

If proof of not being edited is important then why try to create cleaner audio? Just record on the camera mic and have done with it.

That’s pretty much where we’ve come to anyway, I think I only really questioned my phone is I’ve used it in the past and it sounded bloody awful but having not done that for years I guess they’ve come along a touch, and to be honest I thought it would be too simple an answer.

I think, having listened as far as possible, I’ll do just that, use my phone, see how it turns out. If it sounds bad to the extent I’m worried I’ll make some changes based on the advice you’ve all given but I’ve at least got a start now and feel a bit more informed

[Hudson1984]

I did make a seperate thread but perhaps you guys would be able to confirm - PreSonus Eris E3.5 would a pair be a good choice for my setup?

found a pair for £70 delivered, and seems like a good deal and a half decent upgrade. Just wanted to be sure it'll work for my piano before I buy them

what cable would I need to go from my headphone jack to the main speaker?

[CS70]

I'm not sure it's a matter of Hudson1984 knowing that he isn't cheating but the examiners knowing that he can't be cheating..

But all I'm suggesting is adding clean audio to the video file - not editing anything at all. Even if the audio sounded like it was coming from a camera mic that's no guarantee it hasn't been edited.

If proof of not being edited is important then why try to create cleaner audio? Just record on the camera mic and have done with it.

That’s pretty much where we’ve come to anyway, I think I only really questioned my phone is I’ve used it in the past and it sounded bloody awful but having not done that for years I guess they’ve come along a touch, and to be honest I thought it would be too simple an answer.

I think, having listened as far as possible, I’ll do just that, use my phone, see how it turns out. If it sounds bad to the extent I’m worried I’ll make some changes based on the advice you’ve all given but I’ve at least got a start now and feel a bit more informed

Something else you can try (for you pleasure of recording more than for the course, as we already agreed too polished is too suspicious ) is to connect a studio microphone to the iphone, so that you can record good video and good audio by way of having a better microphone positioned - in relation to the new speakers - where it sounds good

Stuff like the iRig Pre (but there's others) allows your phone to use a regular studio mic, and since the mic is connected to a cable you just need a mic stand to place where the sound is best.