iZ RADAR Studio and the return of the PC

[Howdy Doody Time]

Just out of interest -

I have two Radar Studios (what happened was I was negotiating for an ex studio second hand one but the owner changed his mind, so I bought a brand new one. Then he came back with a great price, and you know how it is with spares..)

I was using one as a 24 track tape machine because it sounds and feels like my old long gone Otari MTR-90 But lately, with nothing else to do, I loaded my DAW's Nuendo, Cubase and Reason, all of which needed to be downloaded again because all my comps are Macs.

The Radar runs a stripped to the bare bones Windows 8.1 64 bit OS which is lightning fast in the 64Gb RAM Radars.

Well all the DAWS worked just fine, together with all the plugins (Though I need a thunderbolt 3 card to run the UAD Octopus, and I have no idea whether that should be PCIE or what)

The thing is, all my audio interfaces, and all my Macs are stood down, because the Radar does everything. I'll box them all up and stash them just in case I can't get on with Windows/Radar, but so far, with miles less cable, so jolly good!

I'll keep the i9 MBP just to run a ZX Spectrum emulator running Manic Miner.

[Arpangel]

You lucky person, you can’t get better than this, as you know, I’d like one to run alongside my computer, these things are way way underrated, the thing to get if recording quality is your main concern, the converters are just beyond anything.
Basically you have the best of analogue, and the best of digital.

[Hugh Robjohns]

...these things are way way underrated

Certainly not by the professionals who use them. They are, as HDT says, very neat and effective digital emulations of analogue multitrack machines, and for those that know how to work in a multitrack studio the Radar brings several workflow advantages.

But they are extremely pricey compared to a 'standard' PC, interface and DAW, and will appear to be less versatile/powerful to many as well.

...the converters are just beyond anything.

I think that's over-egging the mix a little... Back in the early days of digital they managed to make converters that sounded better than many of the alternatives at that time, not least because they took a slightly different approach to the filtering processes. And that, rightly, helped them to build a reputation.

But the world caught up long ago and and continued on past... Radar still make superbly good quality converters with modern technology which are on a par with the best of the high-enders. But I don't think it's valid to say the Radar converters are 'beyond' -- there are a lot of really good converters out there these days.

[Howdy Doody Time]

The converters are, as Hugh says on a par with the leaders. But very well engineered components such as the brilliant, quiet power supply, the Adrenaline recording engine with proprietary near zero jitter chips add to the performance.

What makes a big difference for me is the 24 ins and outs both analogue and digital, and the use of modern slimline lightweight SSD drive bays where the "disks" pop in and out instantly and they are cheap as chips as well as robust enough to use as frisbees without losing data.

To have such a super system dealing directly with your favourite DAW for me is the icing on the cake. I've moaned long and annoyingly to those poor souls listening to me here about the difficulties of using commercial computers for recording, with the peripheries often in conflict with each other, and the sudden changes in OS which stop the whole job. But now I feel I have one system, no external converters, no OS update problems, which sounds fabulous, and is as robust and reliable as you could wish for, and a direct line to a real human for ten years thrown in. My moaning days are over!

[The Red Bladder]

I bought a 48-track Radar system in 2002 and it is used constantly today. I shall replace the thing as soon as someone comes up with something better!

[Arpangel]

I bought a 48-track Radar system in 2002 and it is used constantly today. I shall replace the thing as soon as someone comes up with something better!

I still know the sound of those recordings we did at your place, my piano, voice, Neumann U47's through the Amek, flat, straight onto RADAR, plus a bit of Korg Prophecy, that track has a great "quality" the acoustic elements sound really natural, I haven’t been able to get that sound since. It’s a combination of a lot of things, but I was very impressed by how natural the sound from RADAR is, I just can’t justify it here though.
It was a good day, great equipment, etc etc, the alchemy was definitely working.

[The Red Bladder]

Well, thank you Sir!

Something people forget is the ease and speed with which one can work the thing.

[Hugh Robjohns]

That's its real strength for me. It's the workflow benefits of a very focussed control surface giving traditional multitrack working but without having to wait for the spool-backs, and without all the distractions of a computer DAW!

[Arpangel]

That's its real strength for me. It's the workflow benefits of a very focussed control surface giving traditional multitrack working but without having to wait for the spool-backs, and without all the distractions of a computer DAW!

Very true, especially the no distractions bit.
Although regarding my DAW, I won’t let it distract me, it’s basically just a tape recorder, I look at all the other stuff, plug-in's etc, and just laugh.

[Aled Hughes]

There's an old Radar 24 lying around the place here. Might have to see if it's still working and give it a go...

[Arpangel]

There's an old Radar 24 lying around the place here. Might have to see if it's still working and give it a go...

I wish I had stuff like this just "lying around the place"...

[Aled Hughes]

There's an old Radar 24 lying around the place here. Might have to see if it's still working and give it a go...

I wish I had stuff like this just "lying around the place"...

I kid you not, we "found"* an EMT 140 plate reverb a couple of weeks ago!

The studio had one years ago, but we were all under the impression that it had been disposed of. We found it in one of the workshops, taken to bits. Going to try my best to get that one back up and running

[Hugh Robjohns]

I wish I had stuff like this just "lying around the place"...

You would have... but you keep selling it!

[Hugh Robjohns]

I kid you not, we "found"* an EMT 140 plate reverb a couple of weeks ago! The studio had one years ago, but we were all under the impression that it had been disposed of. We found it in one of the workshops, taken to bits. Going to try my best to get that one back up and running

This may be duff info; I've never bothered to check it out, but AFAIK, the case on those plates is lined with asbestos for sound deadening.... so I'd urge handling with extreme care!

My former employer abandoned two working 140 plates in a basement that was to be re-purposed. Special hazardous materials contractors were employed to remove and dispose of them them -- rather than relocate them -- specifically because of the H&S aspects associated with asbestos and the potential risks involved in moving and reinstalling them.

[Aled Hughes]

I kid you not, we "found"* an EMT 140 plate reverb a couple of weeks ago! The studio had one years ago, but we were all under the impression that it had been disposed of. We found it in one of the workshops, taken to bits. Going to try my best to get that one back up and running

This may be duff info; I've never bothered to check it out, but AFAIK, the case on those plates is lined with asbestos for sound deadening.... so I'd urge handling with extreme care!

My former employer abandoned two working 140 plates in a basement that was to be re-purposed. Special hazardous materials contractors were employed to remove and dispose of them them -- rather than relocate them -- specifically because of the H&S aspects associated with asbestos and the potential risks involved in moving and reinstalling them.

Thanks Hugh. Yes, I've also read that asbestos was used for the dampers.
I'll have to look into what that really means for us. If it's a matter of re-assembling and finding a place for it out of the way, I imagine it should be ok.

It could need extensive wwork though. There's probably a reason why it was taken down...

At the risk of hijacking the thread (I might start a new one on the back of this discovery), does anyone know of any EMT 140 specialists in the UK? Ideally someone who also fixes Hammonds, Leslies and vintage loudspeakers...

[Howdy Doody Time]

I recorded Blues Guitar Player John Whitehill (Paul Lamb and the Kingsnakes) who was no stranger to recording studios, on my original Radar 24. He said the sound quality was the best he had experienced anywhere.

That kind of endorsement for me says it all. Sound quality is simply not an issue. Of course there are many other issues in recording which are discussed here often. But for me, the important thing is I know that even though I am an amateur, my recording equipment is professional, and my software is professional. Previously I have often felt, and indeed expressed that the unprofessional aspect of my setup has been the use of home computers, whose market is diverse, and whose makers cannot afford to focus on Pro or Semi Pro recording equipment.

iZ have refined everything in the box, including the operating system, with the sole intention of producing a tool fit for purpose, protected against OS updates, and intimately connected by design to all the elements of the hardware. The remote, for example, is a joy to use and can be configured to match exactly the requirements of ProTools if that is your DAW, or those of any DAW for that matter. You can of course use it purely as a 24 track tape deck if you like. I'm lucky enough to have two of them so one is configured as a complete system where you choose your DAW at the startup screen, and the other is just a tape recorder, great for musicians in the room.

If I sound like an employee of iZ, I apologize, it's just that I'm delighted to have found the ultimate set up and all my home computer problems are a thing of the past. I will use them for their intended purpose - as home computers.

[Arpangel]

I recorded Blues Guitar Player John Whitehill (Paul Lamb and the Kingsnakes) who was no stranger to recording studios, on my original Radar 24. He said the sound quality was the best he had experienced anywhere.

That kind of endorsement for me says it all. Sound quality is simply not an issue. Of course there are many other issues in recording which are discussed here often. But for me, the important thing is I know that even though I am an amateur, my recording equipment is professional, and my software is professional. Previously I have often felt, and indeed expressed that the unprofessional aspect of my setup has been the use of home computers, whose market is diverse, and whose makers cannot afford to focus on Pro or Semi Pro recording equipment.

iZ have refined everything in the box, including the operating system, with the sole intention of producing a tool fit for purpose, protected against OS updates, and intimately connected by design to all the elements of the hardware. The remote, for example, is a joy to use and can be configured to match exactly the requirements of ProTools if that is your DAW, or those of any DAW for that matter. You can of course use it purely as a 24 track tape deck if you like. I'm lucky enough to have two of them so one is configured as a complete system where you choose your DAW at the startup screen, and the other is just a tape recorder, great for musicians in the room.

If I sound like an employee of iZ, I apologize, it's just that I'm delighted to have found the ultimate set up and all my home computer problems are a thing of the past. I will use them for their intended purpose - as home computers.

It is really tempting to go down this route, but I need computer editing, which sort of defeats the object of using RADAR.
Daniel Lanois who I’m a fan of loves RADAR, and it’s surprising who uses it, but it’s a another big spend, that I can’t justify

[OneWorld]

I recorded Blues Guitar Player John Whitehill (Paul Lamb and the Kingsnakes) who was no stranger to recording studios, on my original Radar 24. He said the sound quality was the best he had experienced anywhere.

That kind of endorsement for me says it all. Sound quality is simply not an issue. Of course there are many other issues in recording which are discussed here often. But for me, the important thing is I know that even though I am an amateur, my recording equipment is professional, and my software is professional. Previously I have often felt, and indeed expressed that the unprofessional aspect of my setup has been the use of home computers, whose market is diverse, and whose makers cannot afford to focus on Pro or Semi Pro recording equipment.

iZ have refined everything in the box, including the operating system, with the sole intention of producing a tool fit for purpose, protected against OS updates, and intimately connected by design to all the elements of the hardware. The remote, for example, is a joy to use and can be configured to match exactly the requirements of ProTools if that is your DAW, or those of any DAW for that matter. You can of course use it purely as a 24 track tape deck if you like. I'm lucky enough to have two of them so one is configured as a complete system where you choose your DAW at the startup screen, and the other is just a tape recorder, great for musicians in the room.

If I sound like an employee of iZ, I apologize, it's just that I'm delighted to have found the ultimate set up and all my home computer problems are a thing of the past. I will use them for their intended purpose - as home computers.

I would go down this route too, go out the box, but what I would miss is all the VSTs I have bought,. On the other hand though I do long for the days when my PC would boot in about 7 seconds. I fee inclined to just lock WIn10 down, see if I can strip it back to bare bones and 'freeze' that installation but of course I have to be on the internet to get software updates, everything seems to need an internet connection.

I used to have a Mackie 24 channel mixer and the Mackie HDR24 and I don't know whether I am reminiscing or genuinely finding that the sound and workflow was better, but there again, to counter that - no MIDI tracks

[Sam Spoons]

I spent about ten years using hardware (Analogue desks with Akai DR8/16 and later an HDR24). I still have the HDR24 and an ADAT card for my X32 Compact so could go back to the hardware setup quite easily but Reaper seems to work for me so will stick with it for now.

[Arpangel]

I would go down this route too, go out the box, but what I would miss is all the VSTs I have bought,. On the other hand though I do long for the days when my PC would boot in about 7 seconds. I fee inclined to just lock WIn10 down, see if I can strip it back to bare bones and 'freeze' that installation but of course I have to be on the internet to get software updates, everything seems to need an internet connection.

I used to have a Mackie 24 channel mixer and the Mackie HDR24 and I don't know whether I am reminiscing or genuinely finding that the sound and workflow was better, but there again, to counter that - no MIDI tracks

Interesting, my Win 10 machine boots in about 7 secs, I rarely connect to the internet, as nothing needs updating. I don't use VST's much so I haven’t invested a lot in them, about £50 I think.
I have a Mac that’s a mirror of what’s on my PC, I use the two machines for different purposes.
I can satisfy my longing for "the old days" as I’ve got a Tascam Portastudio, a mixer, and some hardware in the basement, but really, I’d like to integrate all this into one studio, maybe based around a RADAR, and a really nice console, but TBH, I can’t really see that happening now.
I wouldn’t miss the computer, after all, they are a bit of a ripp off, if you let them be.

[Howdy Doody Time]

The Radar Studio is dual boot, you get the choice of whatever DAW you installed, or Radar. If you choose your DAW, you keep all your VST's and you keep using your DAW. When you choose your Audio interface you will see the iZ Adrenaline listed, complete with 24 ins and outs and super latency numbers. Everything you record and playback is through the radar converters. I've been using Reason Suite today, and it's the best it ever sounded.

If you choose Radar, you get the 24 track "Tape Deck" which includes a 24 track waveform "sequencer" like screen. The remote is a big clicky IBM style keyboard with a backlit screen, transport controls exactly like Otari's, and all the punch in/out and markers you'd expect. You can edit the track waveforms I believe, but I haven't tried it. I just ask for another take.

So you get the best of both worlds! It is expensive, but you'd be out of the rat race of annual upgrades and monthly OS updates, and there are bargains on eBay.

[CS70]

On the other hand though I do long for the days when my PC would boot in about 7 seconds. I fee inclined to just lock WIn10 down, see if I can strip it back to bare bones and 'freeze' that installation but of course I have to be on the internet to get software updates, everything seems to need an internet connection.

SSD or rotating hard drive?

I built my main music PC about 5-6 years ago, with a good motherboard, an i5, 16Gb of DDR3 ram and a GX700.. in other words, absolutely no hyperspec. And yet with W10 (always latest update) cold boot time is around 5-6 seconds from start to log in page. From sleep mode is practically instantaneous. Was much slower with W7.

The slower component to boot is - of all things - the audio interface - the driver takes 2-3 seconds to load. SSD is good for speed.

[CS70]

The Radar Studio is dual boot, you get the choice of whatever DAW you installed, or Radar. If you choose your DAW, you keep all your VST's and you keep using your DAW. When you choose your Audio interface you will see the iZ Adrenaline listed, complete with 24 ins and outs and super latency numbers. Everything you record and playback is through the radar converters. I've been using Reason Suite today, and it's the best it ever sounded.

If you choose Radar, you get the 24 track "Tape Deck" which includes a 24 track waveform "sequencer" like screen. The remote is a big clicky IBM style keyboard with a backlit screen, transport controls exactly like Otari's, and all the punch in/out and markers you'd expect. You can edit the track waveforms I believe, but I haven't tried it. I just ask for another take.

So you get the best of both worlds! It is expensive, but you'd be out of the rat race of annual upgrades and monthly OS updates, and there are bargains on eBay.

Can't see how converter nowadays can be "better sounding" - they might be (microscopically) different but I don't think many people in the world, if any, could actually distinguish them in a blind test in any real-world condition... perhaps at the front-end, if the rest is exceptionally clean and the recording space exceptionally quiet... and it almost never is.

But I _absolutely_ love physical haptics with respect to screens or touchscreens, and the Radar seems magnificent in that respect.. and the fact that it manages to beat also the latency bane makes it sound like a really great piece of kit.

I experience the "professionality" (or lack thereof) with a different perspective, which hasn't much to do with kit.. in the studio, rooms are better and I have another person that pushes the buttons. At home, I don't - and that makes the most profound difference to me. If Radar came with a switchable control room engineer, I'd be sold in a minute!

If only I could put Siri or Google in that role...

[Howdy Doody Time]

"Can't see how converter nowadays can be better sounding"

I'd have to agree with you, - in theory. However in practice they are.

I made "the comparison" using professionally pre-recorded material, and listening using Audeze LCD-X phones - which takes care of both recording room and listening room.

Now this could be just psychology, Only I listened, only I judged, but then I hadn't expected any difference, and I wasn't judging. I simply wanted to listen to my favourite track at the moment, and loaded it into Reason, which I'd just installed, picked up the nearest phones, and I immediately thought wow! that's nice.

If your theory is correct - and it may well be, then the manufacturers of the latest converters are in trouble. Their way out would be to say the supporting electronics are much improved.

Which is exactly what iZ details in their literature, and which may account for the difference.

[Arpangel]

"Can't see how converter nowadays can be better sounding"

I'd have to agree with you, - in theory. However in practice they are. xactly what iZ details in their literature, and which may account for the difference.

Yes, and that’s why I prefer some converters over others, if there wasn’t a difference, absolutely, then I wouldn’t notice, and sometimes, the differences aren’t subtle, are quite obvious.