The Groundology plug has non-conductive line and neutral pins, making it inherently safe under all conditions.
Wiring a ground lead into the earth pin of a standard mains plug would do the same thing but isn't inherently safe... And hence it's not an approach I can openly recommend on a public forum to people of unknown technical competence. But I do have some equipment here wired to ground using that kind of technique....
Compact mixer pre into Zoom R16?
Re: Compact mixer pre into Zoom R16?
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- Hugh Robjohns
Moderator -
Posts: 43693 Joined: Fri Jul 25, 2003 12:00 am
Location: Worcestershire, UK
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Technical Editor, Sound On Sound...
(But generally posting my own personal views and not necessarily those of SOS, the company or the magazine!)
In my world, things get less strange when I read the manual...
(But generally posting my own personal views and not necessarily those of SOS, the company or the magazine!)
In my world, things get less strange when I read the manual...
Re: Compact mixer pre into Zoom R16?
Found out the studiospares valve preamp sells to next to nothing used...and has a ground pin. so should earth everything (and hopefully be useful for more gain much like OP suggesting). notice its impedance its super high (but engaging phantom lowers it) so might improve ribbons and dynamics a bit too.
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- permanent_daylight
Regular - Posts: 143 Joined: Sun Jun 25, 2006 12:00 am
Re: Compact mixer pre into Zoom R16?
My 2 cents...
I have a Zoom R16 and record all my instruments direct to the unit mostly dry and or the odd wet track. After I recorded all the instruments to the Zoom I move my SD card from the Zoom to my computer and use the Reaper DAW to mix and add effects etc. For myself, this method works very well. Then if you wish, transform your finished WAV file to a MP3 file and upload to YOUTUBE. Or other Web based platform you would like to spot light your finished product.
and remember...clones are people too....
Dave
I have a Zoom R16 and record all my instruments direct to the unit mostly dry and or the odd wet track. After I recorded all the instruments to the Zoom I move my SD card from the Zoom to my computer and use the Reaper DAW to mix and add effects etc. For myself, this method works very well. Then if you wish, transform your finished WAV file to a MP3 file and upload to YOUTUBE. Or other Web based platform you would like to spot light your finished product.
and remember...clones are people too....
Dave
Last edited by skynet888 on Mon Nov 05, 2018 9:16 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Re: Compact mixer pre into Zoom R16?
FYI, I own a Zoom R16 and recently moved to it being my primary recording/playback interface, as I've downsized from my 24 channel inline analog yamaha desk and dual m-audio 1010 systems... kind of overkill as I only work in my little home music room these days.
The R16 is pretty amazing. I record directly into reaper with it at 96k.... why 96k? low latency, and for some reason it pops and cracks and occasionally pauses connectivity for about 1 second when running at 44.1, so I went all out and it's solid as a rock for me at 96k as an audio interface.
I've used it for stand alone remote recording too and it's excellent.
But yes it's preamps aren't high gain, and can generate noise, and as I'm no longer using the very high end mic preamps in my old yamaha board, I needed to upgrade (specially for my ribbon mics).
So I recently rummaged through my projects drawers and found an ancient Tesla EJU-124 channel strip that had never been racked up. Never had the schematics for it to know how to rack it up or even what power requirements it had. I found that stuff online now though ok (thanks to google translate - nearly none of it is in English). So I finally finished a project I started a couple decades ago - and SUCCESS! 70db of good, transformer balanced mic pre, clean as a whistle, very low noise, with a switchable pultec type EQ if/when needed, as well as phase reverse option.
Putting THAT in front of my R16, with R16 input set nearly all the way off and the output maxed on the Tesla, setting gain as high as possible for the mic without clipping (fortunately there's a clip light in the output stage of the Tesla), and I get a ton of clean gain into my R16 and a nicer sound quality. It's not a high end channel strip, but it's vastly superior quality to the very simplistic stock R16 mic preamp circuits, which I took a look through when I was fixing a bad input jack connection on my R16 (boy I hate trying to read surface mount stuff).
So I can confirm that yes, you can put a higher quality, higher gain preamp ahead of your R16, and get much better S/N ratio and run much lower level mics and quieter sources, and the sound quality is honestly better with the R16 mic preamp level set to nearly off than cranked way up - I've noticed it loses low and high end as you crank the gain in the R16, so it's much more neutral, allowing the flavour of your dedicated outboard mic preamp to shine through.
Doesn't have to be so esoteric as my choice - it's just something I had around, and the kind of stuff I like to do as an engineer.
Cheers
The R16 is pretty amazing. I record directly into reaper with it at 96k.... why 96k? low latency, and for some reason it pops and cracks and occasionally pauses connectivity for about 1 second when running at 44.1, so I went all out and it's solid as a rock for me at 96k as an audio interface.
I've used it for stand alone remote recording too and it's excellent.
But yes it's preamps aren't high gain, and can generate noise, and as I'm no longer using the very high end mic preamps in my old yamaha board, I needed to upgrade (specially for my ribbon mics).
So I recently rummaged through my projects drawers and found an ancient Tesla EJU-124 channel strip that had never been racked up. Never had the schematics for it to know how to rack it up or even what power requirements it had. I found that stuff online now though ok (thanks to google translate - nearly none of it is in English). So I finally finished a project I started a couple decades ago - and SUCCESS! 70db of good, transformer balanced mic pre, clean as a whistle, very low noise, with a switchable pultec type EQ if/when needed, as well as phase reverse option.
Putting THAT in front of my R16, with R16 input set nearly all the way off and the output maxed on the Tesla, setting gain as high as possible for the mic without clipping (fortunately there's a clip light in the output stage of the Tesla), and I get a ton of clean gain into my R16 and a nicer sound quality. It's not a high end channel strip, but it's vastly superior quality to the very simplistic stock R16 mic preamp circuits, which I took a look through when I was fixing a bad input jack connection on my R16 (boy I hate trying to read surface mount stuff).
So I can confirm that yes, you can put a higher quality, higher gain preamp ahead of your R16, and get much better S/N ratio and run much lower level mics and quieter sources, and the sound quality is honestly better with the R16 mic preamp level set to nearly off than cranked way up - I've noticed it loses low and high end as you crank the gain in the R16, so it's much more neutral, allowing the flavour of your dedicated outboard mic preamp to shine through.
Doesn't have to be so esoteric as my choice - it's just something I had around, and the kind of stuff I like to do as an engineer.
Cheers
Re: Compact mixer pre into Zoom R16?
Thanks for taking the time to contribute your thoughts to what is an old thread. During the Lockdown, I have been using the R16 more than usual. Them preamps are damn noisy! The form factor and portability are great.
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- Guest
Re: Compact mixer pre into Zoom R16?
Any time. IMHO old threads are better to keep posting to than creating new threads, as long as it stays on topic. Fortunately, the idea of necro threads is long gone, and now we actually have something to talk about during the dang pandemic!
Yea they're noisy alright LoL, but with loud sources they work just fine. Quieter sources, like how we're using them in quiet home environments now instead of out for live settings that no longer exist LoL, well yea, that's where the external preamp really helps.
I honestly think any external preamp will help, because between the two, they both don't need as much gain, reducing noise from cranking either one. maybe?
Yea they're noisy alright LoL, but with loud sources they work just fine. Quieter sources, like how we're using them in quiet home environments now instead of out for live settings that no longer exist LoL, well yea, that's where the external preamp really helps.
I honestly think any external preamp will help, because between the two, they both don't need as much gain, reducing noise from cranking either one. maybe?
Re: Compact mixer pre into Zoom R16?
I used to use one with a set of SMPRO PR8E preamps fronting it... Good enough (just!) for location work... whether I'd be happy with it now having got used to higher-end gear I'm not so sure...
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- Mike Stranks
Jedi Poster - Posts: 10589 Joined: Fri Jan 03, 2003 12:00 am
Re: Compact mixer pre into Zoom R16?
I have a lot of time for my R16 - back in the day I did a lot of recording in Croydon’s various 16 track studios, and now I have a basic 16 track studio in a very likeable box. Still, when I ran the R16 up against the Mix Pre 3m, it was such a mismatch to the point of being unfair. The Mix Pre is like an audio mirror...it goes in, it comes out uncannily the same.
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- Guest
Re: Compact mixer pre into Zoom R16?
yea, I believe that!
I have had my zoom open a couple of times now, and I keep thinking to myself, I wonder how hard it would be to tap in before the mic pre gain stage to get an unbalanced low gain input that I could throw a couple of transformers on (preferably 1:2 or 1:3) to both increase input level to a line level and to created a balanced connection... the mic pres in this thing are VERY simplistic yet give, what, 50db gain about? so there must be a couple of gain stages, and they must have somehow managed to find the only remaining purchasable op amps that are so noisy in this day and age LoL.
With so many op-amp based discrete balanced mic pre schematics out there in the public domain, I don't understand how they made it so noisy.
But I still at least can confirm the setup I have with a very high gain mic preamp, (70db gain), and solid output stage level into the R16 set with it's gain nearly all the way down. It works wonders for keeping noise level down.
If only it had switched gain levels so you could actually switch the mic pre out of the circuit, like on high end channel strips.... but of course that's asking way too much.
Actually, I'd be happy even if it had an adat connector or wahtever that one is that gives you 8 channels of digital inputs. I used to throw a behringer 8 channel pre with digital outs into the 8 channel in on my main card and the s/n ratio was excellent actually.... which again shows it's the cruddy analog stages that are the problem here.
I have had my zoom open a couple of times now, and I keep thinking to myself, I wonder how hard it would be to tap in before the mic pre gain stage to get an unbalanced low gain input that I could throw a couple of transformers on (preferably 1:2 or 1:3) to both increase input level to a line level and to created a balanced connection... the mic pres in this thing are VERY simplistic yet give, what, 50db gain about? so there must be a couple of gain stages, and they must have somehow managed to find the only remaining purchasable op amps that are so noisy in this day and age LoL.
With so many op-amp based discrete balanced mic pre schematics out there in the public domain, I don't understand how they made it so noisy.
But I still at least can confirm the setup I have with a very high gain mic preamp, (70db gain), and solid output stage level into the R16 set with it's gain nearly all the way down. It works wonders for keeping noise level down.
If only it had switched gain levels so you could actually switch the mic pre out of the circuit, like on high end channel strips.... but of course that's asking way too much.
Actually, I'd be happy even if it had an adat connector or wahtever that one is that gives you 8 channels of digital inputs. I used to throw a behringer 8 channel pre with digital outs into the 8 channel in on my main card and the s/n ratio was excellent actually.... which again shows it's the cruddy analog stages that are the problem here.
Re: Compact mixer pre into Zoom R16?
Darren Lynch wrote:I have a lot of time for my R16 - back in the day I did a lot of recording in Croydon’s various 16 track studios, and now I have a basic 16 track studio in a very likeable box. Still, when I ran the R16 up against the Mix Pre 3m, it was such a mismatch to the point of being unfair. The Mix Pre is like an audio mirror...it goes in, it comes out uncannily the same.
actually that brings up another issue - not just noise in the R16, but it's slightly uneven response, and lack of deep bass .
Another thing I found with it was keeping it's input gain low kept the frequency response much more neutral - if you crank the R16 input gains it seems to start to shelf off lows audible, and the highs sound less good.
Ah well, that's what we get for being cheap, right?