Your opinon on Studio Monitors with Auto Standby function that can't be turned off

[Mike Stranks]

Unfortunately road layouts and traffic laws have to cater for the lowest common denominator

There's an ongoing 'Something ought to be done about it' brouhaha going on in the town where our daughter and her husband live. We visit once a week for childcare duties...

One approach to the town is via a straight dual-carriageway about a mile long. 70mph speed limit at the start - a motorway exit. About half a mile back from the roundabout the speed limit drops to 50mph, then to 40mph in a few more hundred yards. Every week, cars and lorries overtake me with some brio in both speed limits. There have been numerous incidents and a few fatalities where people have literally hit the centre of the roundabout because of their speed.

There are constant cries of 'dangerous roundabout' and other 'do something about it' stuff. As I recall my driving instructor telling me 52 years ago, "the most frequent component failure in cars is the nut behind the wheel."

I blame 'Top Gear'...

[Mike Stranks]

I vaugely remember that the whole daylight headlamps thing was started by Volvo in the 70s or 80s ? That was based on safety research.
A side effect was Volvo drivers were forever getting flashed by oncomming traffic "your lights are on mate !".

Indeed! And many of them quickly had an official rear-window sticker that said, "I know my lights are on. It's a Volvo!"

[ef37a]

Is there any evidence it doesn't?

Well I am SHOCKED Mr Robjohns! A man of science and engineering being against fact based laws!

Not at all. I just think it's up to you to prove your claims rather than for everyone else to disprove them.

No, that is just my opinion. Laws should be made based on evidence. May I cite the 'kneejerk Dangerous Dogs act? I have never owned a dog but I knew a guy with two mastiffs with 'bull' genes and they were as soft as ***!
Dogs are a bit like cars, it is the owners that need locking up!

Dave.

[Hugh Robjohns]

Laws should be made based on evidence.

I quite agree... but so should claims declaiming current practice as invalid!

Yes, there should be evidence for safety benefits of DRL -- and a quick google suggests a reference source might be: Andersson and Nilsson. VTI Swedish Road and Transport Research Institute, Report No. 208A; 1981 -- the introduction of DRL resulted in a reduction of 11% of multiple accidents during daytime...

So... what evidence can you offer to back your opinion that DRL's don't affect accident rates at all? Or that they cause a significant increase in fuel use and CO2 emission for that matter?

I'm not suggesting your opinion is necessarily wrong... just that it needs evidence too.

Interestingly, Her Majesty's Goverment website states:

Evidence
Research has shown that DRLs are likely to reduce multiple vehicle daytime accidents and fatalities by up to 6% once all vehicles are equipped. DRL are likely to result in a small increase in fuel consumption and CO² emissions of around 0.5% but this is expected to be lower when LEDs are used in place of filament light sources.

https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/daytime-running-lights/daytime-running-lights

[ef37a]

Thanks Hugh, that is basically all I was asking for, some evidence that daytime lights have an effect on reducing accidents and especially fatalities.

I am also pleased to see my idea that fuel consumption and therefore CO2 emissions increase is also recognized.

It would of course be great if everyone just use LED sidelights but most seem determined to show off everything they have!

My main point was that laws should not be passed "on a whim" or because of populist pandering. No one running a factory decides to invest £1M in a new product unless they have reasonable expectation of a market!

Dave.

[mschaedel]

Hi there,

i am using Focal Alpha 80. There is no problem for me so far. I like the "Eco-Mode" and it is easy to start the monitors again. Btw, if i don't use them for a longer time...let's say 5 min or so...then chances are good i don't use them in the next half hour either.
And listening in 65 or 70 db does not cancel the function. So great product, great audio and (hopefully) great mixes with no limit for me.

greets
Martin

[Honch]

From auto standby thread to headlights, this thread. Amusing.

I guess that none of you have lived in Sweden or been to Sweden, or Scandinavian countries. Since we had a law on driving with dimmed headlights (or you guys call it half-light?)all day, all nights on the twilight, dawn accidents diminished by 2/3 all across the country. Now EU - for some strange reason - allows the tails lights to be operated manually beats me.

If you've been to Sweden, the dusk and dawn is a VERY drawn out affair. It doesn't get dark so street lights are automatically turned on after 20 minutes like in meditereanean countries or like around the equator, when it turns dark within 10 minutes all year around.

Here we're talking 2-3 hours, and the human eye gets accustomed to "dark seeing" by that time, and can't decide on when to turn on or off lights appropriately. You go "Oh I see clear as daylight..." afte you hit something. So a lot of fines where handed out and went to court to determine who had the preferential right of interpretation of when the lights should have been turned on or not. Too late when you hit a bicyclist. So, they decided - ALL DAY - so there should be no bickering, whining, debate on where and when ti use them. And they don't draw that much current, the engines are fireing up and charging the batteries for this. And frankly, in broad daylight, you still see cars, from behind and front way sooner, than if the headlights was turned off.

Now, since EU directives ALLOWS for tail lights to be turned off, and just use brake light, a number of accidents has increased when cars hits at the rear. Just becuase they don't have managed to manually turn them on. Beats me that directive. You don't save anything with that, not petrol (gas) or anything else.

Now digressing, or hijacking the thread aren't we ?

- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -

Effect of ambient light

"The daytime running light was first mandated, and safety benefits first perceived, in Scandinavian countries where it is persistently dark during the winter season. As ambient light levels increase, the potential safety benefit decreases while the DRL intensity required for a safety improvement increases. The safety benefit produced by DRLs in relatively dark Nordic countries is roughly triple the benefit observed in relatively bright United States."

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Daytime_running_lamp

So there. Period.

[Hugh Robjohns]

Now digressing, or hijacking the thread aren't we ?

Digressing, yes. Common characteristic of the SOS forum contributors when a topic has been beaten to death and lead on to more interesting tangents....

[Honch]

Hmm. A review is not a substitute for a manual. I'm not really one for casual purchases but for anything serious I will read a couple of reviews but also download the manual. Something like a switchable power off i would expect to be detailed in the manual, i'd only really require it to be mentioned in the review if it didn't work as expected.
Obviously if there wasn't a manual available then a) i'd be less likely to buy it, and b) I would expect a little more from the review.

And where in the manual can you read that it works so so, from idle to starting up? They never write that it goes on on feeble signals, or how long it takes to start up again, like 4-5 seconds, 30 seconds, or 1 milliseconds. You will read a couple of reviews too, like me, but if it isn't stated there at all then, or brought up that it is either fast/good or too slow start up time?

Of course, in the manual you can read that it is bypassable or not but that's about it.

- - - - - - - - - -
Now let's hear it:

How many of you with bypassable standby function leaves it active?

Of course, you may answer differently to what you do IRL to not be perceived as a climate-denier, or environmentally challenging person...

[Honch]

...
Obviously if there wasn't a manual available then a) i'd be less likely to buy it, and b) I would expect a little more from the review...

Now this is what I was looking for. Someone else too "excpect a little more from the review".

[Honch]

This is getting ridiculous.
The Elf made a throwaway comment about 'out the door' and you build a whole case based on that comment.

Well, all things on forums are throwaway comment, I don't build a case based on that one. I saw a review where it was stated/listen as a CON on select monitor. Then it's not minor, methinks. Someone else is making a fuss about this.

You are obviously very greatly exercised about this. I'm not sure why, but each to their own. The answer for you is simple. Checkout the specs of gear online, looking for this specific point. Look at photos of the control plates of prospective monitors to see if any auto-power can be disabled. If the spec says the monitor has auto-off and you can't see a way of disabling it then walk away.

Yes, as with the JBLs it isn't visible on the outside, you have to probe deep into the manual, and do an unwiedly procedure to circumvent it. Still, not stated in any review. It's the inconsistency of reviews I am - really - after.

It really is no big deal. Why you've found it necessary to post multiple times about such a relatively minor point is beyond me.

Some reviewers DO think it's a really major point as they list is as a CON don't you think? Ok, let's go back to the Pioneers. The review.

"The last remaining rear-panel feature is an auto-standby switch. When ‘on’, the RM-07 switches to standby mode after it’s been silent for a while, and switches back on automatically when it detects an input signal. I used the feature for a while but soon switched it off — I found it sometimes frustratingly slow to switch on."

Nowhere in the manual (of any monitor) is it stated how fast or slow it switches on. I've read the RM07 manual. Well, if it is like this then, that they have incorporated a circumvent switch if in the predicament that a user should find the startup time frustrating, then why the **** include it in the first place then?

It's the reviews. Inconsistent. Since it was that MusicRadar review of the Focals that irked me the wrong way, I wondered slightly "it dawned on me" so to speak, that I wondered "hmmm...is this of importance?" Not that the standby is important, but important to mention it in a review, and why that reviewer deemed this as a CON (without specifying if it was bypassable or not).

Hence I asked in this thread.

[zenguitar]

For several pages now I feel like I am being ranted at. Can it stop now?

Andy

[Honch]

For several pages now I feel like I am being ranted at. Can it stop now?

Andy

[Hugh Robjohns]

They never write that it goes on on feeble signals, or how long it takes to start up again, like 4-5 seconds, 30 seconds, or 1 milliseconds.

You're still talking nonsense! Some manufacturers provide all the info you could possibly need. I've read several speaker manuals over the years that state explicitly the elapse time(s) before standby, and the reboot time (often only milliseconds). The last one I reviewed was the Neumann KH80 whose manual states the following (with my highlighting):

STANDBY
If the SETTINGS switch has been set to one of the two AUTO STANDBY = ON positions, the
KH 80 DSP will switch to standby after 90 minutes. Standby means that the network interface, signal processing circuitry and power amplifiers are all powered down. Standby mode is automatically deactivated when a sufficiently large audio signal is detected at the analog input. The time taken to resume normal operation and hear sound is 5 seconds. It is possible to change the time before standby mode is activated using the Neumann.Control software. Standby can be disabled by moving the SETTINGS switch to one of the two AUTO STANDBY = OFF positions.

[Mike Stranks]

- - - - - - - - - -
Now let's hear it:

How many of you with bypassable standby function leaves it active?

I do!

Now back to those car lights...

[ef37a]

Honch, ok, accept the crash reductions for the gloomy countries and have no problem with people showing side lights, it is the idiots with the blazing headlights that bug me. Just three hours ago I was proceeding in a westerly direction and a Beamer pulled in 50mtrs afront me with FOUR headlights on..AND he was stationary!

No, I certainly don't mind drivers 'being seen' (tho' the CT drivers might get seen better if they weren't all Gangster black!) .

I suppose I just find it all a bit weird having driven for so long and never had any trouble avoiding trouble.

Speaking of "trouble"? I'll start some! How about a statutory 20mph for side streets? "Twenty is Plenty!"

Dave.

[Honch]

They never write that it goes on on feeble signals, or how long it takes to start up again, like 4-5 seconds, 30 seconds, or 1 milliseconds.

You're still talking nonsense! Some manufacturers provide all the info you could possibly need. I've read several speaker manuals over the years that state explicitly the elapse time(s) before standby, and the reboot time (often only milliseconds). The last one I reviewed was the Neumann KH80 whose manual states the following (with my highlighting):

You base a whole on one example. Actually I read the manual for Pioneer RM-07 again, and nothing about startup time. You are telling us the black swan logical fallacy. No matter how little or how much it is stated or have been in recent years, it's still not mentioned at all in reviews, and in some reviews just detected as a negative thing. Have you read all reviews? Of course not. You're biased and challengable, and skewed because you work for a competitive reviewer. Of course, so your neutrality or objectivity are naturally challenged on this point.

"Some manufacturers" you said. Of course there are. I have read the manuals, and found them too. Those that doesn't.

[ef37a]

...
Obviously if there wasn't a manual available then a) i'd be less likely to buy it, and b) I would expect a little more from the review...

Now this is what I was looking for. Someone else too "excpect a little more from the review".

We all do Honch! Hugh will tell you my hobby horses have clip-clopped around this forum quite a few times.

The fact is there is only so much time and so much space. I come from reading 'Old School' reviews in the likes of Studio Sound and Hi Fi News (before it went silly) but there is just SO much STUFF these days. The comment is also made that much of the readership is too th..SORRY! Not technically savvy and would not understand more in depth, technical content.

I still have my doubts about that but I don't run the mag!

Dave.

[Hugh Robjohns]

You base a whole on one example.

No, you did by using the word 'never'. I simply pointed out that many do. So not 'never, then...

..it's still not mentioned at all in reviews

No. And I've already explained why that might be. Not all reviews detail the range of the sensitivity control, or the limit values of the claimed frequency response, or the production tolerances, or countless other technical parameters that might be just as important to some potential purchasers as auto-standby times apparently are to you. Such is life. Perfection is a rare luxury.

You seem to be treading the same old ground again though, and I share Andy's perception of being ranted at and blamed for the perceived inadequacies of other people. So how about we just agree to disagree and leave it there? Pretty please...

[ef37a]

Fine by me Doc,

"Get that light out!!"

Dave.

[Richie90]

I have Fostex studio monitors and l hate how they go into power save mode, it drives me nuts can not wait to see the back of them.

[Arpangel]

Honch, ok, accept the crash reductions for the gloomy countries and have no problem with people showing side lights, it is the idiots with the blazing headlights that bug me. Just three hours ago I was proceeding in a westerly direction and a Beamer pulled in 50mtrs afront me with FOUR headlights on..AND he was stationary!

No, I certainly don't mind drivers 'being seen' (tho' the CT drivers might get seen better if they weren't all Gangster black!) .

I suppose I just find it all a bit weird having driven for so long and never had any trouble avoiding trouble.

Speaking of "trouble"? I'll start some! How about a statutory 20mph for side streets? "Twenty is Plenty!"

Dave.

Dave, modern car headlights are too bright, period, totally unnecessary.
Speaker stand by? I love it, saves power, a good idea all round.

[Hugh Robjohns]

Zombie thread revival...

The speaker suto power-off is essentially driven by EU power saving policies. I imagine most amateur users would fully power down their studios when not in use, so it is probably not particularly relevant, and most systems can be deactivated, if preferred. However the power savings might be significant in professional studios and broadcasters etc who typically leave studios powered 24/7.

Car lights: if you live in a town or city with street lights the intensity of car headlights isn't that important, but living out in the sticks where there are no street lights as I do, makes me really appreciate the capabilities of modern LED headlights.

Dazzling has always been an issue, but many modern LED systems have automatic blanking functions specifically to avoid dazzle, and that technology will quickly become standard as it's relatively cheap and easy to do now, as a spin off from the lane control/speed detection systems which are also becoming standard fit.

In my Merc, driving on main beam, it's fascinating to see a block of light get cut out around an oncoming car, or if I come up behind another car, while the rest of the road remains fully lit. I absolutely love it, and it makes night driving much easier and safer.

[ef37a]

Hugh, I did not think LED headlights were legal in UK as yet?

Has that changed and if so when please?

Dave.

[Sam Spoons]

AIUI you can't retrofit LED headlight bulbs to standard headlight units but they can be used as original equipment. Not sure if you can fit complete replacement units from a 3rd party supplier or OEM from a later model. Will do a quick Google later